2018 Browns Free Agent Thread

[Los216]

Case Keenum will probably follow him there. that would eliminate another possible suitor for Alex Smith and possibly RCF darling Kirk Cousins.

View: https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/951481309133762560

 

[sportscoach]

You'd have the money for that...this year.

But thinking one year at a time would be short-sighted, obviously.

At some point, you have to be able to tell people why you just paid Kirk Cousins the most money of any QB in the league when you have a guy like Rosen there in the draft and other options in free agency.


The only reason people want to do this is to vault the Browns out of the basement and into mediocrity, but to truly build a winner, mediocrity ain't the path.

So you pretty much are saying Rosen will be a better QB than Cousins? Rosen doesn't have a track record of winning himself at the end of the day in college against top ranked opponents.

I get that we would be overpaying for Cousins and that could hurt us long term, but at the same time, for the next few seasons, we actually could be really good. I mean if you look at the possibilities, we wouldn't have a single weak spot on this roster on paper outside of us being young and not the best coach in the world it seems.

Honestly I get both sides of the argument here since if we wait another year its very possible we found a solid QB for cheaper, but Flacco and Big Ben are older and so are their rosters. Bengals arent as strong themselves right now so the division isnt super strong right now. Brady is 40 and a bad injury away from being done.

Why not try to win it all the next three seasons or so? We would have 2 first round picks in 19 from trading down and other things like that. We have the assets still to add more pieces in 19 even if we go all in this season. Also most of the core pieces are signed already for 19 as well. To me this just is a time to go for it not sit around and keep building and I support the rebuild the right way, but we need to get this franchise turned around and into a winning culture.

 

[Lee]

You'd have the money for that...this year.

But thinking one year at a time would be short-sighted, obviously.

At some point, you have to be able to tell people why you just paid Kirk Cousins the most money of any QB in the league when you have a guy like Rosen there in the draft and other options in free agency.


The only reason people want to do this is to vault the Browns out of the basement and into mediocrity, but to truly build a winner, mediocrity ain't the path.

We have money for a few years, 2 or 3. We wont spend all of the cap in one off season, plus tons of rookie contracts for 3-5 years, one of the reasons we have so much cap.

Nowin 3 years, 30 mill qb will be the norm, contracts go up. To get Cousins we need to pay, that is just a fact. But if we pay now, slightly front load it, or give large signing bonus and flat line it, like 50 mill bonus, 20 mill a year for 5 years, then it is not a bad contract come year 3.

Cap is something i understand, and if we are going to overpay for the most important position is sports, this is the year to do it. We are set up because of the ton of rookie deals we have going for the next several yeas because of all the picks and we got rid of almost any talent not named Joe Thomas not on a rookie deal.

5/150 with our situation if structured correctly will not be albatros you are thinking.

Besides we cant suck any worse than last year, 0-17 is not an option.

 

[AZ_]

So you pretty much are saying Rosen will be a better QB than Cousins? Rosen doesn't have a track record of winning himself at the end of the day in college against top ranked opponents.

I get that we would be overpaying for Cousins and that could hurt us long term, but at the same time, for the next few seasons, we actually could be really good. I mean if you look at the possibilities, we wouldn't have a single weak spot on this roster on paper outside of us being young and not the best coach in the world it seems.

Kirk Cousins is 26-30-1, so neither does he if that's the road you want to take.

Yes, if Rosen is developed he should be better than Cousins, and far younger. Happy to bring in a bridge QB that doesn't require the largest QB contract in NFL history, also.

Good trade off, keep building the rest of the team, but don't dress up Cousins as a top bill QB when he really isn't.

 

[Lee]

You'd have the money for that...this year.

But thinking one year at a time would be short-sighted, obviously.

At some point, you have to be able to tell people why you just paid Kirk Cousins the most money of any QB in the league when you have a guy like Rosen there in the draft and other options in free agency.


The only reason people want to do this is to vault the Browns out of the basement and into mediocrity, but to truly build a winner, mediocrity ain't the path.

Mediocrity is the path in football.

If we win 7 or 8 next year with Kirk, a few other free agents and saving some cap we will be in great shape.

We will have all of our 2nd year players then being 3 year vets and all of the rookies from this year being 2 year vets, experience is everything in the NFL. Still have 30 or 40 million in cap space to fill in some more depth holes, and by then players like Minkah and Myles will be starts, especially Myles.

Then we can start challenging for a playoff spot, and the 20 mill a year we owe Kirk does not look so bad.

Lets take the saints for example. They were 3-13 in 2005. Took a chance on an injured Brees. Brees fits the system perfectly and takes the team to 10-6 and a perennial playoff team.

Now I am not saying Kirk will be that good, but the difference a good qb makes is huge, and with the youth of the team, one year of being mediocre and fixing qb is the exact recipe to the playoffs.

 

[AZ_]

We have money for a few years, 2 or 3. We wont spend all of the cap in one off season, plus tons of rookie contracts for 3-5 years, one of the reasons we have so much cap.

Nowin 3 years, 30 mill qb will be the norm, contracts go up. To get Cousins we need to pay, that is just a fact. But if we pay now, slightly front load it, or give large signing bonus and flat line it, like 50 mill bonus, 20 mill a year for 5 years, then it is not a bad contract come year 3.

Cap is something i understand, and if we are going to overpay for the most important position is sports, this is the year to do it. We are set up because of the ton of rookie deals we have going for the next several yeas because of all the picks and we got rid of almost any talent not named Joe Thomas not on a rookie deal.

5/150 with our situation if structured correctly will not be albatros you are thinking.

Besides we cant suck any worse than last year, 0-17 is not an option.

My hangup is paying for Cousins, not having the cap to pay for Cousins. sportscoach was suggesting having the money to sign multiple other multi-year deals, which in addition to the largest QB contract in football would eat up much of that cap space.

$30 million AAV for Cousins is terrible, there is simply no justification for his play that warrants such a deal.

 

[sportscoach]

My hangup is paying for Cousins, not having the cap to pay for Cousins. sportscoach was suggesting having the money to sign multiple other multi-year deals, which in addition to the largest QB contract in football would eat up much of that cap space.

$30 million AAV for Cousins is terrible, there is simply no justification for his play that warrants such a deal.

My suggest was to have a team the next few seasons that is a winning team and Super Bowl contender. Look at the roster I was suggesting. I know people are like this team will never reach there, but with the assets we have, going all in for the next few seasons, I don't think is a mistake.

That's just how I feel about it. I want to go all in this season. Not for 7-8 wins, I want to go in for a Wild Card spot if not more and we can get that with Cousins as our QB.

 

[AZ_]

My suggest was to have a team the next few seasons that is a winning team and Super Bowl contender. Look at the roster I was suggesting. I know people are like this team will never reach there, but with the assets we have, going all in for the next few seasons, I don't think is a mistake.

That's just how I feel about it. I want to go all in this season. Not for 7-8 wins, I want to go in for a Wild Card spot if not more and we can get that with Cousins as our QB.

Yeah, going from 0-16 to "going all in for a few season" is an incredibly poor way to build a team.

For one, the Browns will never build a winner through free agency, no successful smaller market team ever has because free agents don't view Cleveland as a free agent destination.

This isn't Madden.

Build through the draft, develop your winner and retain talent.

Don't give a borderline Top 10 QB the biggest QB contract in history and pretend that and a few other moves have turned you into a contender.

That's not going to work.

 

[Lee]

My hangup is paying for Cousins, not having the cap to pay for Cousins. sportscoach was suggesting having the money to sign multiple other multi-year deals, which in addition to the largest QB contract in football would eat up much of that cap space.

$30 million AAV for Cousins is terrible, there is simply no justification for his play that warrants such a deal.

I think long term it would work out. But in no way can you pay Cousins and go all in on other free agents. You need cap to sing your own players in a few years, and you should be looking for depth with free agency. I really like Kirk and think he is a very good qb in the correct system. He is in a bad situation in Washington. Not that the Browns currently any better, but the idea is to improve.

That said, i dont see Kirk coming here. I think the most likely path is bridge qb, or aging vet qb and draft Donald or Rosen.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Kirk Cousins isn't taking you the wild card unless you have a great team around him. And he isn't winning you a Super Bowl unless you have an incredible team around him with a historically great defense. And you aren't paying for all of that when you give Cousins $30 million a year.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Im not opposed to paying Kirk a premium to get him here for 3 or 4 years years. Our free agents the next few years aren't too crazy because or drafting has been piss poor for years.

If you front load the hell out of his deal, you can make a compelling offer while still building a legitimate team around him (all the while you prep Rosen or Darnold for the big show). Staffords deal was 5 year $135 mil (95 guaranteed). I don't see why you cant guarantee $105 mil over 5 years and not remain competitive if the deal is front loaded to hell while we have the cap space. Something like $35, $38, $30, $20, $20. Then by the time Kirk is on the decline, you have a way out and a QB ready to go.

I don't entirely think Kirk is 100% franchise lock, but he will keep us relevant while we prep the next guy. We have to become relevant and compete before we are ready to win it all. Id prefer a bridge for sure, but Cousins wouldnt be crazy.

Then by drafting a QB, Fitzpatrick, hopefully a LB & a WR you plug up these upcoming "holes" before they are even an issue. We lacked a lot of talent, hence why many of these guys we can afford to let walk.

This year we have Crow (replaceable).

2019 McCourty, Thomas (give him what he wants), & Orchard (replaceable). Higgins, Coley & BBC are RFA.

2020 is when we start to see significant free agents: Shelton, Trettor, Taylor (hopefully replaced by then), Ogbah, Nassib, Shobert, Louis (meh), Kindred (hopefully addressed this draft), Devalve (wont be a big pay day), Coleman (can walk), Drango (will be backup money).

 

[sportscoach]

Yeah, going from 0-16 to "going all in for a few season" is an incredibly poor way to build a team.

For one, the Browns will never build a winner through free agency, no successful smaller market team ever has because free agents don't view Cleveland as a free agent destination.

This isn't Madden.

Build through the draft, develop your winner and retain talent.

Don't give a borderline Top 10 QB the biggest QB contract in history and pretend that and a few other moves have turned you into a contender.

That's not going to work.

Signing the top QB in free agency, the top WR, top CB and FS plus being able to have 8 picks in the top 65, to fill in other positions of need and depth. That is a talent boost that could put us into the playoffs easily and into a contender. Look at the roster we would be putting on the field with those types of moves.

My Hypothetical Depth Chart:


QB: Cousins*, Kizer, Kessler/Day 3 pick
WR: Gordon, Robinson*, Coleman, (Sutton, Kirk)
RB: (Michel, Guice,) Johnson
FB: Vitale
LT: Thomas, Johnson
LG: Bitonio, Drago
C: Tretter, Reiter
RG: Zietler
RT: Coleman, Banner
TE: Burton*, Njoku, DeValve
DEs: Garrett, Orchard, Ogbah, Nassib,
DTs: Shelton, Coley, Brantley, Ogunjobi
LBs: Collins, Kirksey, Schobert, Burgess, (2 more here via free agency/draft)
SS: Kindred, Peppers
FS: Boston*, (Reid)/Nacua
CB: Johnson*, (Minkah), McCourty, Taylor, Boddy-Calhoun

That is the type of team I am proposing for us to have for 18 with my signings and trades. Now not everything is filled in, but that is how I want to make a splash and tell me that is a bad plan. Everything there is actually possible as well. This is what I am proposing we do at the end of the day.

I get where you are coming from, but that is a solid roster!

 

[AZ_]

Signing the top QB in free agency, the top WR, top CB and FS plus being able to have 8 picks in the top 65, to fill in other positions of need and depth. That is a talent boost that could put us into the playoffs easily and into a contender. Look at the roster we would be putting on the field with those types of moves.

My Hypothetical Depth Chart:


QB: Cousins, Kizer, Kessler/Day 3 pick
WR: Gordon, Robinson, Coleman, (Sutton, Kirk)
RB: (Michel, Guice,) Johnson
FB: Vitale
LT: Thomas, Johnson
LG: Bitonio, Drago
C: Tretter, Reiter
RG: Zietler
RT: Coleman, Banner
TE: Njoku, DeValve, Telfar (I actually would love to get Burton here)
DEs: Garrett, Orchard, Ogbah, Nassib,
DTs: Shelton, Coley, Brantley, Ogunjobi
LBs: Collins, Kirksey, Schobert, Burgess, (2 more here via free agency/draft)
SS: Kindred, Peppers
FS: Boston, (Reid)/Nacua
CB: Johnson, (Minkah), McCourty, Taylor, Boddy-Calhoun

That is the type of team I am proposing for us to have for 18 with my signings and trades. Now not everything is filled in, but that is how I want to make a splash and tell me that is a bad plan. Everything there is actually possible as well. This is what I am proposing we do at the end of the day.

I get where you are coming from, but that is a solid roster!

Yeah, again...

This isn't Madden.

 

[sportscoach]

Yeah, again...

This isn't Madden.

That is all possible within the cap space and everything else we have.

Johnson is plausible to sign since his best season was with Williams. Boston is looking for a good paying long term deal. Robinson is a solid free agent WR and will go where he is considered a top option. Burton is looking for more playing time and we could easily see two TEs on the field at all times

If we trade down from one twice and draft Sutton, we will likely have two more draft picks in the second round. Getting 2 RBs like Guice and Michel isnt going to be hard and then with the other two second round picks we may be able to get Kirk and Reid.

I am sincerely saying something we can actually do. The front office got a ton of cap space available and a ton of assets in the draft. That possible roster is actually plausible at the end of the day. IF you don't believe me, crunch the numbers since they are there.

 

[Lee]

Kirk Cousins isn't taking you the wild card unless you have a great team around him. And he isn't winning you a Super Bowl unless you have an incredible team around him with a historically great defense. And you aren't paying for all of that when you give Cousins $30 million a year.

it wont take a great team to get wild card for Kirk, but good team yes.

The only qb in the league that can take an average team to the playoffs is Brady.

Even Brees misses the playoffs when his team has been average, so saying you need a good team to make the playoffs is nothing new. Now, you also need a decent qb and i think many are underestimating the impact that Kirk would have on this team.

But i will keep coming back to Kirk is not coming here. Numerous teams will be willing to pay him around 25 million a year, and i dont think 5 million moves the needle enough for him. He was very unhappy in Washington and Cleveland right now is too much like that imo.