2018 Browns Free Agent Thread

[PIP]

We've got a solid offensive line, one good RB, two potentially good to great WRs, a TE who looks like a future stud, and a solid second TE. Our main issues this year offensively were coaching and shit QB play. You add Smith and that addresses one of those issues. It won't make Hue a good coach, but it will patch a lot of the holes. Add in a stud RB early in the second and maybe another WR as well and you're looking at what could be a potent offense with a decent or better QB.

I don't think we're far off defensively, either, at least from a talent standpoint. We have quite a few good players on our defense. What killed us this year was that we didn't really have a number one DB and our general depth wasn't great. A couple of injuries just killed us because of that lack of depth.

I know the team went 0-16, but there is quite a bit of NFL-caliber talent on this squad, which isn't normally the case for an historically bad team. They just didn't have a QB and the coaching was terrible. And I still think it's possible that Hue wasn't going out of his way to win games because he wanted to get Sashi fired.

That’s what my point was tho. The coach didn’t tailor a game plan to put his rookie in the best possible light. He didn’t utilize a ground game and he didn’t put in a pass game that could cater to his young QB like say McCarthy at least tried to do with Hundley ?

And there’s 2 years worth of that cause that’s what he was killing Kessler about a year ago. He wanted a vertical attack and Kessler was not providing it.

I think Smith is a perfect veteran QB for the team. I’m just curious as to where he fits with what Hue does in terms of gameplan ? Hue is gonna Hue...

Totally agree the Browns aren’t far off. But adding a stud running back as you say (who won’t get used) and a QB who doesn’t challenge a defense vertically just seems like a disaster with Hue Jackson coaching them..

 

[Jack Brickman]

That’s what my point was tho. The coach didn’t tailor a game plan to put his rookie in the best possible light. He didn’t utilize a ground game and he didn’t put in a pass game that could cater to his young QB like say McCarthy at least tried to do with Hundley ?

And there’s 2 years worth of that cause that’s what he was killing Kessler about a year ago. He wanted a vertical attack and Kessler was not providing it.

I think Smith is a perfect veteran QB for the team. I’m just curious as to where he fits with what Hue does in terms of gameplan ? Hue is gonna Hue...

Totally agree the Browns aren’t far off. But adding a stud running back as you say (who won’t get used) and a QB who doesn’t challenge a defense vertically just seems like a disaster with Hue Jackson coaching them..

I don't have a lot of faith in Hue Jackson's ability to coach anyone at this point, but Alex Smith isn't an awful downfield passer when he's got a target to throw to. He hit Tyreek Hill damn near every game for a couple of long bombs, and we've got guys like Coleman who is almost as fast and Gordon who is an elite size/speed combo, both of whom can burn down the field and get open.

I also think a stud RB would definitely get used. Crowell got over 200 carries this year despite not being good for most of the year. You give those carries to a more talented back and you likely see improved production, and you've still got Duke to soak up another ~100 carries and targets.

 

[Chris]

I don't have a lot of faith in Hue Jackson's ability to coach anyone at this point, but Alex Smith isn't an awful downfield passer when he's got a target to throw to. He hit Tyreek Hill damn near every game for a couple of long bombs, and we've got guys like Coleman who is almost as fast and Gordon who is an elite size/speed combo, both of whom can burn down the field and get open.

I also think a stud RB would definitely get used. Crowell got over 200 carries this year despite not being good for most of the year. You give those carries to a more talented back and you likely see improved production, and you've still got Duke to soak up another ~100 carries and targets.

I thought Alex Smith performed admirably in deeper passes this year?

 

[Randolphkeys]

Duke Johnson is not as good as Browns fans are led to believe. Somehow Hue has been blamed for Duke just being meh everytime he gets an opportunity. Three years, roughly 500 touches, and ten total touchdowns from a supposed big play threat.

Solid backup, I like his versatility... but that's three years of meh.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Duke Johnson is not as good as Browns fans are led to believe. Somehow Hue has been blamed for Duke just being meh everytime he gets an opportunity. Three years, roughly 500 touches, and ten total touchdowns from a supposed big play threat.

Solid backup, I like his versatility... but that's three years of meh.

When you say ten total touchdowns, you fail to mention that seven of them came this year when he broke out. He averaged 4.2 yards per carry. He caught 74 passes on 93 targets for almost 700 yards. He had over 1000 all purpose yards despite seeing only a little over 150 touches, averaging 6.8 yards every time he touched the ball.

In the NFL, among RBs this season, he was:

• 3rd in receiving yards.
• 4th in receptions.
• 3rd in yards per touch.
• 4th in juke rate.
• 15th in dominator rating (which is the percentage of total team yards and touchdowns a player controls...Duke accounted for 23% of our total offense).
• 5th in production premium.
• 12th in catch rate.

He was fantastic this year.

This was not "three years of meh." This was two years of meh followed by an incredibly productive breakout season.

 

[Los216]

View: https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/951563864189095936

 

[Jack Brickman]

Another fun Duke tidbit...

He scored a touchdown roughly every 22 times he touched the ball.

Here are the average touches per touchdown for other top RBs this year (rounded to nearest whole number):

• Todd Gurley - 18
• Zeke Elliott - 30
• Leonard Fournette - 30
• Le'Veon Bell - 37
• Alvin Kamara - 16
• Kareem Hunt - 30
• Melvin Gordon - 29
• Mark Ingram - 24
• LeSean McCoy - 43
• Christian McCaffrey - 28
• Carlos Hyde - 37
• Devonta Freeman - 29

Seems like a pretty legitimate big play threat to me. That's especially true when you consider that Duke wouldn't traditionally be the guy who got the ball at the goal line, meaning most of his touchdowns came from at least several yards out.

 

[Los216]

Which RB in this draft would pair best with Duke or is a FA a better option?

 

[Randolphkeys]

When you say ten total touchdowns, you fail to mention that seven of them came this year when he broke out. He averaged 4.2 yards per carry. He caught 74 passes on 93 targets for almost 700 yards. He had over 1000 all purpose yards despite seeing only a little over 150 touches, averaging 6.8 yards every time he touched the ball.

In the NFL, among RBs this season, he was:

• 3rd in receiving yards.
• 4th in receptions.
• 3rd in yards per touch.
• 4th in juke rate.
• 15th in dominator rating (which is the percentage of total team yards and touchdowns a player controls...Duke accounted for 23% of our total offense).
• 5th in production premium.
• 12th in catch rate.

He was fantastic this year.

This was not "three years of meh." This was two years of meh followed by an incredibly productive breakout season.

Change of pace backup to shitty Crowell on the shittiest offense in the NFL because he lacks durability and yards after contact.

Once Browns fans get an actual talent at a skill position, you guys are going to shit your pants. Duke is meh.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Change of pace backup to shitty Crowell on the shittiest offense in the NFL because he lacks durability and yards after contact.

Once Browns fans get an actual talent at a skill position, you guys are going to shit your pants. Duke is meh.

No one has ever argued that Duke is anything other than a satellite back. However, he's an elite satellite back who makes things happen every time he gets the ball. You don't average almost seven yards per touch as a RB (which, again, was third in the NFL this year) by being mediocre.

I'd also say that putting up over 1000 total yards on the shittiest offense in the NFL is a mark in his favor. We had a QB who struggled with basic passes and a line that wasn't great a run blocking and he still averaged over four yards per carry and nearly seven per touch. And, with a smarter coach, he likely would have had several hundred more yards because he would have gotten three to five more touches per game.

 

[Soda]

When you say ten total touchdowns, you fail to mention that seven of them came this year when he broke out. He averaged 4.2 yards per carry. He caught 74 passes on 93 targets for almost 700 yards. He had over 1000 all purpose yards despite seeing only a little over 150 touches, averaging 6.8 yards every time he touched the ball.

In the NFL, among RBs this season, he was:

• 3rd in receiving yards.
• 4th in receptions.
• 3rd in yards per touch.
• 4th in juke rate.
• 15th in dominator rating (which is the percentage of total team yards and touchdowns a player controls...Duke accounted for 23% of our total offense).
• 5th in production premium.
• 12th in catch rate.

He was fantastic this year.

This was not "three years of meh." This was two years of meh followed by an incredibly productive breakout season.

We've been through it. Isn't changing Keys's opinion.

 

[Jack Brickman]

We've been through it. Isn't changing Keys's opinion.

Yeah, I know, but it's just ridiculous to me that someone can look at Duke's numbers this year and think he was mediocre. There is ample evidence to dispel that notion.

 

[Los216]

@Randolphkeys

View: https://twitter.com/Browns/status/951575726179995649

 

[Randolphkeys]

I'm going to throw some numbers at you:

Player 1:
130 rushes for 452 yards, 58 receptions on 77 targets for 528 yards, nine total touchdowns.


Player 2:
82 rushes for 348 yards, 74 catches on 93 targets for 693 yards, seven total touchdowns.


Pretty similar output and roles. Player two was Duke last season, but which Browns player churned out the numbers above? That's who Duke reminds me of, not tremendously memorable but a nice role player. Both firmly in my category of meh.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I'm going to throw some numbers at you:

Player 1:
130 rushes for 452 yards, 58 receptions on 77 targets for 528 yards, nine total touchdowns.


Player 2:
82 rushes for 348 yards, 74 catches on 93 targets for 693 yards, seven total touchdowns.


Pretty similar output and roles. Player two was Duke last season, but which Browns player churned out the numbers above? That's who Duke reminds me of, not tremendously memorable but a nice role player. Both firmly in my category of meh.

Player one averaged 3.5 yards per carry to Duke's 4.2, which is the difference between replaceable and productive. Duke also averaged more yards per reception, although that at least was close.

Meanwhile Duke's yards per touch blew player one's out of the water, 6.8 to 4.7.

Based on those stats, Duke is just a far more efficient player on a per touch basis.