JDailey23
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Finally, someone addresses the elephant in the room.
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2018 Draft Prospects Thread
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SixPACK
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Saw a mock draft yesterday that had us taking a LT 1st overall from Western Michigan. Now, that guy may me a beast, but fuck off.
Now...Eli is Eli. Don't get me wrong. But with a supporting cast, he can be a serviceable QB. He still has 1 year after this on his contract, as well. With a potential out before 2019.
Also, some of you may be forgetting. The Giants drafted Davis Webb this year. Do they see him as a franchise QB? Who the hell knows. He hasn't played a game. But that could deter them from taking a QB early as shit at least.
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Joshy Boucher
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I'm still on the Josh Allen bandwagon but apparently I'm the only one.
I still think he should've left last year... both starting WR, the starting TE, the starting RB (and his backup) all graduated/left so they were looking at a full overhaul of offensive weapons. Not sure how he expected this year would be a better situation.
His new supporting cast is garbage. Horrible hands and slow. Their OL isn't doing him any favors either... I don't know that they've started the same 5 guys in the same spots in any of the games I've seen. Doesn't surprise me that they look like collective crap this year.
If you look at the skillset, he has massive arm talent, great athleticism, is super competitive, comes across as intelligent in interviews and has all the size you could want. The hard part is going to be separating those traits from the crappy performance on the field.
He needs to be coached hard on fundamentals and needs to rein in his gunslinger tendencies and how sloppy he gets when he's pressing but all that can be coached if the student is able to learn. Honestly, I'd rather draft the skillset and hope a guy can be coached than try to roll with a limited guy.
If we can grab Barkley at #1 and trade up for Allen? That's a dream scenario for me.
The Wizard of Moz
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People love to talk about a Browns thing to do when ragging on the team
You know what would be a total Browns thing to do? Take a running back #1 overall in the draft at the height of the passing league era
More so if you believe that the front office will survive this season you guys should really get Barkley out of your head. I highly highly doubt that an analytics based front office that is driven by relative value is taking the position in the NFL with the shortest shelf life #1 overall
You know what would be a total Browns thing to do? Take a running back #1 overall in the draft at the height of the passing league era
More so if you believe that the front office will survive this season you guys should really get Barkley out of your head. I highly highly doubt that an analytics based front office that is driven by relative value is taking the position in the NFL with the shortest shelf life #1 overall
Los216
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This hasn't been hard to do at all...
He's a third rounder. Even if you really like him you can't justify taking him in the first round. He's too much of a project at QB to take that high. Right now he's don't put on the field at all in his first season project. That isn't always a bad thing though it's just where he's at.
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Joshy Boucher
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There is no way he’s a third rounder with that kind of talent. Maybe you grade him there, fine, but I think he goes in the first for sure.
And I think the more people are able to separate the traits from the garbage team, the higher he’ll climb... the same way people were eventually able to separate Wentz’s traits from his playing in the FCS.
And I think the more people are able to separate the traits from the garbage team, the higher he’ll climb... the same way people were eventually able to separate Wentz’s traits from his playing in the FCS.
Los216
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Wentz wasn't that bad and he only played with on pro prospect I believe.
Los216
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Joshy Boucher
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Every time Greg Gabriel tweets, a picture of Rex Grossman pops up in my app and I can't read it.
I'm not comparing Allen to Wentz from a production standpoint, I was merely saying that people couldn't get over Wentz playing in the FCS for the longest time before they finally got on board. With Allen, it's going to be a LOT harder because his production is trash.
What does he have? Just about every trait you could want from a QB. Big size, massive arm talent, athleticism, toughness, intelligence, competitive fire, etc. His traits are similar to Wentz. But he's way more raw and the production doesn't line up (and it usually does) so he's a much harder evaluation and a likely lower grade than a guy who could've gone #1.
What I'm saying is that traits like intelligence and competitive fire are what is needed to convert the raw ability to consistency, good mechanics and production and I feel like Allen has them based on what I've seen and heard from him. Putting him on a team with actual talent around him will only help. Looking only at production and writing a guy off... that's bad scouting 101.
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Los216
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Hmm. Competitive fire??? I don't know about that one. Tebow and Hoyer have competitive fire.
Intelligence? Not sure he's shown enough good decision making yet. I'm not calling him dumb but he hasn't shown enough for me to label him as a cerebral QB
Now here are some traits that I think he doesn't have yet.
Poise
Accuracy
Processing
Pocket Awareness
Timing
Decision making
Footwork
Those are more important to me than competitive fire.
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Joshy Boucher
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Watch him play for any length of time and you'll see his fire. He's a competitive dude and gets pretty amped up.
When I'm talking about traits, I'm referring to things that can't be taught. His intelligence may not translate to the field yet but he's a smart guy; watch him interview. Then watch someone like Paxton Lynch speak and you'll realize why Lynch hasn't put it together.
I actually think he has what you're calling "traits" too but he is woefully inconsistent with them. Sometimes he'll stand tall in the pocket, step up and release the ball on a dime and it'll make your jaw drop. Other times, he'll bail before he should, deliver the ball off his back foot and throw it right at a defender. Watching his mechanics break down at the end of the Iowa game was painful. I think most of that can be fixed though. The one thing I think he won't be able to shake is the gunslinger mentality but I can live with that.
I can 100% understand why you and others don't like him because he needs a LOT of work. I'm just saying that I see a guy that with the right coaching could become an absolute star and at QB, that makes a guy a 1st round pick.
And the reason why things like intelligence and competitive fire are SO important are because they're what's needed to deliver on talent.
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Fixed
Los216
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It takes more than that. What you described is a real project of a QB. Nothing wrong with that. You just don't take those guys where we are going to be picking in the first round when you need a FQB. That's a mid round pick dude. First round QB's shouldn't have that many things to work on. If they do the they aren't draftable in the first round. Maybe they develop them later but that's why you draft them later. Not really rocket surgery. Right now he needs twice as much work and time as Kizer. We aren't KC. We can't pick our project QB with upside (still questionable) in the first round. We don't have a Pro Bowl QB, elite skill position players, elite defensive players. KC has been one of the best teams in the league the last 4 years. They are at a different stage than us. We don't have the luxury to draft Josh Allen even with the texans pick which will likely be top 15. That would be nuts.
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Joshy Boucher
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We will never be a good team without a QB and we don't have the luxury to sit around and hope for one. If teams like the Chiefs are taking QBs in the first round, we can either wait for the leftovers like we did last year or pick a guy we really want a bit earlier than is comfortable. It is what it is.
Unless we find a veteran stopgap, we'll likely end up reaching for QB in the 1st just like every other team that's serious about upgrading the position. QB gets forced up the board every single year. And if we don't, we deserve all the crap we get for passing on QB after QB.
Los216
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You want us to be reckless trying to get a QB? Are you one of the guys who wants to draft a QB in every round until we find the guy?
Mitch Trubisky has two two games completing less than 20 passes total. If he did that here would you be calling him your FQB? We drafted Johnny Manziel and for a calendar year he was the last guy to lead us to a win. FQB? We took him. We went up and got him. Must be our guy.