2018 NBA Draft - June 21

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Tom Izzo's rotations are very annoying.

 

[buzzdog]

So your thoughts on Moritz Wagner?

He looks like the best player on the court in the UM/MSU game. And that includes Jaren Jackson Jr.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

He looks like the best player on the court in the UM/MSU game. And that includes Jaren Jackson Jr.

Yeah...I really like him. Looks like almost the ideal stretch 5/4 bargain with how he is currently projected. Would have fit quite well here if we decided to use Kevin Love to improve the team in the off-season and make us better match-up against the Warriors(Gives you stretch big potential that we desperately need with Lebron).

Gives me Lauri Markannen vibes with better defense. Not the same shooter, but does other things better.

 

[buzzdog]

There was a play where e screened off like 3 defenders to allow an open drive to the hoop for a teammate, a thing of beauty. Rugged defender, good at blocking out and screening, nice 3 point shooting stroke. Plays with attitude and aggressiveness.

Still not quite a true center but I think he's going to be a player at the NBA level. He looks like he could be a younger more athletic Kevin Love. He makes TT look like a D-leaguer.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

There was a play where e screened off like 3 defenders to allow an open drive to the hoop for a teammate, a thing of beauty. Rugged defender, good at blocking out and screening, nice 3 point shooting stroke. Plays with attitude and aggressiveness.

Still not quite a true center but I think he's going to be a player at the NBA level. He looks like he could be a younger more athletic Kevin Love. He makes TT look like a D-leaguer.

I think he is a bit different than Love obviously as he isn't quite the same rebounder and he moves differently on the floor, but looks like his game is going to translate very well to the pros.

Here he is against MSU in their last meeting

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeDmuLCCKXc

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

I think he is a bit different than Love obviously as he isn't quite the same rebounder and he moves differently on the floor, but looks like his game is going to translate very well to the pros.

Here he is against MSU in their last meeting

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeDmuLCCKXc

Doesn't compare to Lauri at all to me.

He reminds me alot of a poor man's Steven Adams though. If only he was a little bigger.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Doesn't compare to Lauri at all to me.

He reminds me alot of a poor man's Steven Adams though. If only he was a little bigger.

What?

Weird comparison man.. to say the least lol

Wagner has an outside inside game, can put the ball on the floor, has good 3pt shot, mid range, better FT shooter and really doesn't protect the rim like Adams. Where is the comparison ?

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

What?

Weird comparison man.. to say the least lol

Wagner has an outside inside game, can put the ball on the floor, has good 3pt shot, mid range. Where is the comparison ?

High energy, elite screen setting, above average team defender, very good rebounder and uses his body well on both ends around the rim.

Just based on your Lauri comp I think we're way off on his shooting potential. I think he's an okay shooter that can hit pick and pop 3's if he's given space, but Lauri is on an entirely different level (has ridiculous shot diversity). His jumpshot isn't what's getting him drafted, it's the things I mentioned above.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

High energy, elite screen setting, above average team defender, very good rebounder and uses his body well on both ends around the rim.

Just based on your Lauri comp I think we're way off on his shooting potential. I think he's an okay shooter that can hit pick and pop 3's if he's given space, but Lauri is on an entirely different level (has ridiculous shot diversity). His jumpshot isn't what's getting him drafted, it's the things I mentioned above.

You are just completely off on this man(according to my eyes and every source I have).

Lauri and Wagner have very very similar offensive profiles. Sure, Wagner isn't the same shooter as Lauri in terms of efficiency and in divesity, but he isn't that far as you make it seem. He has improved each year in that area and his numbers are pretty elite in terms of Spot up, Off Screens and general jump shots in the half court.

I compare them as prospects offensively, I dont' care about their defense as Wagner isn't going have tons of value as a defender in the next level. His value is going to come on the offensive end.

Wagner is ranked in the 31st Percentile as an overall defender.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Wagner is a good defender around the rim...he allows 58% around the rim. His value defensively(at the college level) comes as a PnR defender and as a periemeter defender.

Adams was an elite post up defender(Wagner is terrible defending post ups), but was not a good perimeter defender, PnR defender or isolation defender.

Even as far as rebounding goes, Wagner isn't comparable as rebounder nor is he an elite one. Adams OREB% was almost as high as his DREB%, while Wagner's OREB% is ridiculously low. I really don't think he is even going to be a good rebounder in the next level.

The only similarity between them is that they both play with tons of energy.

They both have completely different profiles as players on both ends of the floor.

I'm 100% sure that his offensive package right now and in the long term is what's going to get him drafted. His all-around offensive game, his elite spot-up numbers on a high volume and his ability to either pop the screen or roll with excellent efficiency is what's going to get him drafted...certainly not his defensive game, rebounding or him being an energy big.

The way he reads the floor on the offensive end and his all-around offensive game plus his size is what he is as a prospect at the next level, and this is why I compared him to Lauri and not Steven Adams.

I guess we can just agree to disagree here? but, seriously, I just can't see it.

 

[Nathan S]

Don't mind the Lauri comparison, but I don't think it's as flattering a comparison as people think. I wouldn't touch Lauri in the lottery of this draft.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Don't mind the Lauri comparison, but I don't think it's as flattering a comparison as people think. I wouldn't touch Lauri in the lottery of this draft.

But no one would touch Wagner in the lottery as well,so...

What's your comparison for Wagner? Do you see any Steven Adams in him in college or at the next level? What's your comparison for him?

 

[Nathan S]

But no one would touch Wagner in the lottery as well,so...

What's your comparison for Wagner? Do you see any Steven Adams in him in college or at the next level? What's your comparison for him?

I haven't watched enough of him to come up with a comparison, but from what people are saying it seems like he's a more well-rounded prospect than Lauri. Within this draft I see him as a slightly less interesting version of Killian Tillie.

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

You are just completely off on this man(according to my eyes and every source I have).

Lauri and Wagner have very very similar offensive profiles. Sure, Wagner isn't the same shooter as Lauri in terms of efficiency and in divesity, but he isn't that far as you make it seem. He has improved each year in that area and his numbers are pretty elite in terms of Spot up, Off Screens and general jump shots in the half court.

I compare them as prospects offensively, I dont' care about their defense as Wagner isn't going have tons of value as a defender in the next level. His value is going to come on the offensive end.

Wagner is ranked in the 31st Percentile as an overall defender.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Wagner is a good defender around the rim...he allows 58% around the rim. His value defensively(at the college level) comes as a PnR defender and as a periemeter defender.

Adams was an elite post up defender(Wagner is terrible defending post ups), but was not a good perimeter defender, PnR defender or isolation defender.

Even as far as rebounding goes, Wagner isn't comparable as rebounder nor is he an elite one. Adams OREB% was almost as high as his DREB%, while Wagner's OREB% is ridiculously low. I really don't think he is even going to be a good rebounder in the next level.

The only similarity between them is that they both play with tons of energy.

They both have completely different profiles as players on both ends of the floor.

I'm 100% sure that his offensive package right now and in the long term is what's going to get him drafted. His all-around offensive game, his elite spot-up numbers on a high volume and his ability to either pop the screen or roll with excellent efficiency is what's going to get him drafted...certainly not his defensive game, rebounding or him being an energy big.

The way he reads the floor on the offensive end and his all-around offensive game plus his size is what he is as a prospect at the next level, and this is why I compared him to Lauri and not Steven Adams.

I guess we can just agree to disagree here? but, seriously, I just can't see it.

Yea agree to disagree lol. I think you should watch more Markkanen. The guy runs off of screens and shoots off the dribble much more often than Wagner does. From what I have seen, Wagner almost always gets to the hoop on dribble drives, doesn't shoot as many jumpers off the dribble as Markkanen. And Wagner can actually punish switches in the post, unlike Markkanen.

The things I think teams will love with Wagner are the things that make Adams so great. That's what we disagree with and that's what I was getting at. I probably misworded it earlier, but they're not carbon copies of one another. I think you draft Wagner for providing those sorts of things. Most teams can probably find more efficient offense than his faceup game, which is why I sort of stupidly ignored it in that Adams comp lol. The main separator for me is the 3 point shot like I mentioned.

Having a big that can handle the ball some and score off a face-up is one of the number one traits that I just don't care about. It's basically what got Henry Ellenson drafted 18th overall. It's nice to have, but like I said I think that almost every team can create offense in a far more efficient way.

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

I think we've been sleeping on French PG Elie Okobo. Going to make a scouting report on him at some point today hopefully, will post it here.

 

[Nathan S]

I think we've been sleeping on French PG Elie Okobo. Going to make a scouting report on him at some point today hopefully, will post it here.

Yup...Musa, Bonga, Okobo, and Bitadze all underrated by mainstream pundits just because they pale in comparison to Doncic, I think. Those four would constitute an above-average Euro crop in their own right.