2018 NBA Draft - June 21

[Nathan S]

What does Bagley do better than Ayton besides getting off the floor quickly?

Just overall looks a step quicker than the competition, which I think bodes well for him. Frequently infiltrates the restricted area to get offensive rebounds and catch lobs even against good, experienced defenders who know what's coming. When guys put a body on him, he still finds a way to get free and make a play. I'd also argue he looks somewhat more comfortable than Ayton taking guys off the dribble.

And of course, a year makes a lot of difference at this stage in a player's development. If Bagley had stayed in high school another year and gone to college next season, he could probably average 25/12. If he's Ayton's equal right now, skill-wise, that really means he's a year ahead of Ayton in his development.

 

[MirORich]

So watching tonight’s game against the Pistons, is the fear that Ayton would have a Drummond-like impact and interest on the defensive end?

 

[DJTJ]

So watching tonight’s game against the Pistons, is the fear that Ayton would have a Drummond-like impact and interest on the defensive end?

I watch a lot of Arizona basketball in comparison to a lot of people on this board. I just don't get the Deandre Ayton isn't a good defender stuff. Sean Miller asks him to do a lot offensively, and he plays a ton of minutes. He's way too important to them to get in foul trouble by aggressively contesting shots and I think that effects his statistical production.

 

[DJTJ]

Just overall looks a step quicker than the competition, which I think bodes well for him. Frequently infiltrates the restricted area to get offensive rebounds and catch lobs even against good, experienced defenders who know what's coming. When guys put a body on him, he still finds a way to get free and make a play. I'd also argue he looks somewhat more comfortable than Ayton taking guys off the dribble.

And of course, a year makes a lot of difference at this stage in a player's development. If Bagley had stayed in high school another year and gone to college next season, he could probably average 25/12. If he's Ayton's equal right now, skill-wise, that really means he's a year ahead of Ayton in his development.

Fundamentally believe that if you switch their current places on rosters, Marvin Bagley isn't nearly as impactful. It's really easy playing with that Duke roster.

 

[Nathan S]

I watch a lot of Arizona basketball in comparison to a lot of people on this board. I just don't get the Deandre Ayton isn't a good defender stuff. Sean Miller asks him to do a lot offensively, and he plays a ton of minutes. He's way too important to them to get in foul trouble by aggressively contesting shots and I think that effects his statistical production.

I've watched a few of his games, most recently the Oregon game...it was crazy the number of times Oregon players drove in for layups and he just didn't make any effort at all to help. He wasn't in foul trouble at all, either. In particular, with the game on the line at the end of regulation, Ayton was in perfect position to cut off the drive and protect the rim and he literally didn't even move or do anything. He was just standing in no man's land, guarding nobody...just standing there.

EDIT

Ballhandler turns the corner:

Ayton looks like he's gonna help:

Nope, jk, just gonna chill here:

Oregon player gets an uncontested floater (luckily he misses, but Oregon goes on to win in OT anyway):

 

[DJTJ]

I've watched a few of his games, most recently the Oregon game...it was crazy the number of times Oregon players drove in for layups and he just didn't make any effort at all to help. He wasn't in foul trouble at all, either. In particular, with the game on the line at the end of regulation, Ayton was in perfect position to cut off the drive and protect the rim and he literally didn't even move or do anything. He was just standing in no man's land, guarding nobody...just standing there.

EDIT

Ballhandler turns the corner:

Ayton looks like he's gonna help:

Nope, jk, just gonna chill here:

Oregon player gets an uncontested floater (luckily he misses, but Oregon goes on to win in OT anyway):

Didn't he put up like... 28/18 with four blocks that game?

I think it's incredible to knitpick singular plays. While poor, why doesn't Rawle Alkins step up to meet the guy, while Ayton drops back? Alkins actually moves towards the help (as does Ayton), and then both proceed to return. Miscommunication moreso than anything.

 

[Nathan S]

Didn't he put up like... 28/18 with four blocks that game?

I think it's incredible to knitpick singular plays. While poor, why doesn't Rawle Alkins step up to meet the guy, while Ayton drops back? Alkins actually moves towards the help (as does Ayton), and then both proceed to return. Miscommunication moreso than anything.

Not nitpicking one play...as I said before, he was similarly nonexistent as a help defender throughout the game. I highlighted that play in particular because with the game on the line, there's no way to justify it with "he's conserving energy" or "he's avoiding foul trouble" logic.

That game was a classic David vs. Goliath matchup. Arizona trots out two 7-footers, while Oregon trots out two 6'8" stretch 4's for their frontcourt. Ayton dominated as expected in the early going, but as the game went on Oregon's defense adjusted, eventually completely neutralizing him. Meanwhile, Oregon's unassuming frontcourt continued to make big 3's, eventually carrying them to the comeback win.

The story will be the same in the NBA, I think. Ayton won't be the nightmare matchup people think he'll be. NBA defenses know how to box out, and know how to stop a guy from catching the ball deep in the paint. They'll happily let Ayton make and miss his midrange fadeaways, and meanwhile they'll pick him apart on the other end.

 

[Nathan S]

Killian Tillie has made his last 10 (EDIT: 11) threes in a row. Sleeper.

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

So watching tonight’s game against the Pistons, is the fear that Ayton would have a Drummond-like impact and interest on the defensive end?

Yes

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Killian Tillie has made his last 10 (EDIT: 11) threes in a row. Sleeper.

Unbelieveable shooter. I only worry about his weight and frame.

 

[Heej]

Didn't he put up like... 28/18 with four blocks that game?

I think it's incredible to knitpick singular plays. While poor, why doesn't Rawle Alkins step up to meet the guy, while Ayton drops back? Alkins actually moves towards the help (as does Ayton), and then both proceed to return. Miscommunication moreso than anything.

Because it looks to me that the guard is zoning up the two poorly spaced shooters on the right wing instead of bumping down to Alkins man so Alkins can't step up or he'll give up the lob pass. I think it's fairly obvious this is Ayton's rotation to make and you're being intentionally obtuse. I've said it before but it really looks to me like Ayton has all the interest of a DeMarcus Cousins level defender.

Hard pass on this kid unless he shows more fire because bigs bring most of their impact on defense. You can get a guard to bring you that level of offense and low impact defense. Also I don't see why Bagley is gonna be that much better than Julius Randle. You don't wanna go to war with them as your 4 or your 5

 

[Nathan S]

ESPN has moved Ayton to #1 over Doncic.

Bagley down to 5.

Jaren Jackson up to 4.

Wendell Carter up to 7.

Trae Young down to 8.

Aaron Holiday up to 23.

Jacob Evans up to 24.

Tony Carr now at 42.

Brandon McCoy down to 47.

Moritz Wagner up to 55.

Shamorie Ponds appears at 58.

Goga Bitadze down to 61.

Goga had 11 points, 8 boards, 2 steals, and 5 blocks today and was a team-high +7. His per-40 averages now stand at 20 points, 12 boards, 3.6 blocks. He's significantly ahead of where other comparable Adriatic league products like Pekovic, Nurkic, and Zubac were at the same age. Would be mind boggling if he goes undrafted.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Goga had 11 points, 8 boards, 2 steals, and 5 blocks today and was a team-high +7. His per-40 averages now stand at 20 points, 12 boards, 3.6 blocks. He's significantly ahead of where other comparable Adriatic league products like Pekovic, Nurkic, and Zubac were at the same age. Would be mind boggling if he goes undrafted.

I want Goga... but I'm a hoarder... I want every damn good looking prospect.

He should be a first round pick imo. Looks like a better prospect than Zizic.

 

[Nathan S]

I want Goga... but I'm a hoarder... I want every damn good looking prospect.

He should be a first round pick imo. Looks like a better prospect than Zizic.

Yeah, damn, arguably a better prospect than Zizic was at the same age too. Wonder if he's grown at all since he was measured last summer...has the look of a guy who's not quite done growing.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Yeah, damn, arguably a better prospect than Zizic was at the same age too. Wonder if he's grown at all since he was measured last summer...has the look of a guy who's not quite done growing.

He reminds me of Nurkic, but better on both ends of the floor at the same age. Like a mix between Jokic and Nurkic.

I really have high hopes for him. Looks like he has a pretty ridiculous ceiling.

So how do we get him?