2018 NBA Draft - June 21

[Derek]

Looks like Nets will end up in the 9-spot in the lottery in all likelihood.

Hope everyone on here likes Miles Bridges.

I've started to warm on him quite a bit. Has a solid floor in a draft without much of that, and ridiculous athletic ability that yields a fair bit of upside. I'm talking myself into it already.

You mean Mikal?

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

You mean Mikal?

I wish.

Dan Gilbert would probably still try to draft Mateen Cleaves this year if he could. He doesn't hide his pride in MSU. Plus all the rumors on how he runs the front office, and the general appearance that it seems Altman may just be a "yes-man".

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I don't think he's remotely in play for the cavs, so this is just a thought experiment for me. I have a hard time believing that standing reach number, watching him. It's not like all, or even most, of his blocks are sneaky from-behind blocks. He's fantastic at staying super tight to the body and getting his hands up in a flash, and it seems like he gets them high enough to bother the shot even before he leaves the ground . It's hard to imagine any guard just comfortably shooting over top of this guy.

Sure, but there is still a huge difference between 8'7 and 8'2. I don't think they are going to have quite the same game at all.

Melton is much more of quick twitch. He is a high leaper that attacks with tremendous force for a guy his size and likes to finish at the rim , while Murray is a smooth athlete and is more about finesse and uses his length and ability to get in the lane in order to generate high percentage floaters.

Melton is more like David Nwaba and even Donovan Mitchell without the 3pt shot to me, and Murray is more like Livingston, but better defensively.

Looks like Nets will end up in the 9-spot in the lottery in all likelihood.

Hope everyone on here likes Miles Bridges.

I've started to warm on him quite a bit. Has a solid floor in a draft without much of that, and ridiculous athletic ability that yields a fair bit of upside. I'm talking myself into it already.

I'm in the exact same spot as you lmao. Miles Bridges baby!

 

[Nathan S]

Figure I'll bump this post to point out how unlikely it is that we'll pick Miles. If he was indeed #11 on our big board then, he probably isn't any higher now after his stink bomb against Syracuse in the tourney.

Mock draft based on these big boards and current standings would be:

Suns: Doncic
Grizz: Jackson
Magic: Ayton
Hawks: Bagley
Mavs: Bamba
Kings: Young
Bulls: Mikal
Cavs: Porter
Knicks: Sexton
Philly: Carter
Hornets: Knox

Since I'm quoting him anyway, I'll take the opportunity to ask...do you know of any changes to the Cavs' big board? Any prospects that have generally risen/fallen on big boards across the league?

Got lazy with typing on the phone. Jackson and JJ both stand for Jaren Jackson lol.

But alas... The teams most likely to be making the top 11 selections and their top 11 prospects in order of how much they like each guy.

Cavs: Ayton, Bamba, Porter, Doncic, Jackson, Bagley, Young, Sexton, Carter, Mikal Bridges, Miles Bridges


Philly: Jackson, Doncic, Young, Porter, Carter, Mikal, Sexton,Ayton, Bagley, Bamba, Musa


Hawks: Doncic, Jackson, Bagley, Ayton, Young, Bamba, Carter, Porter, Sexton, Walker, Mikal


Knicks: Doncic, Young, Porter, JJ,Ayton, Bamba, Sexton, Bagley, Mikal, Carter, Walker


Charlotte: Porter, Bagley, Ayton, Young, Doncic, Mikal, Bamba, Carter, Sexton, JJ, Knox


Suns: Doncic, Ayton, Bamba, Bagley, Young, Sexton, Miles, Walker, JJ, Porter, Carter


Mavs: Ayton, Doncic, Bamba, Bagley, Porter, Carter, JJ, Mikal, Miles, Young, Sexton,


Grizz: Doncic,JJ, Ayton, Porter, Carter, Bagley, Young, Mikal, Walker, Bamba, Hutchinson


Magic: Ayton, Doncic, Young, Bagley, Sexton, JJ, Bamba, Porter, Knox, Carter, Miles


Bulls: Doncic, Ayton, Bagley, Young, Mikal, Carter, Porter, JJ, Bamba, Sexton, Walker


Kings: Ayton, Young, Bagley, Mikal, JJ, Doncic, Walker, Miles, Knox, Carter, Bamba

 

[Nathan S]

Sure, but there is still a huge difference between 8'7 and 8'2. I don't think they are going to have quite the same game at all.

Melton is much more of quick twitch. He is a high leaper that attacks with tremendous force for a guy his size and likes to finish at the rim , while Murray is a smooth athlete and is more about finesse and uses his length and ability to get in the lane in order to generate high percentage floaters.

Melton is more like David Nwaba and even Donovan Mitchell without the 3pt shot to me, and Murray is more like Livingston, but better defensively.



I'm in the exact same spot as you lmao. Miles Bridges baby!

Has there ever been such a small guy who blocked so many shots, that you can recall? I feel like all these comps are sort of grasping at straws...Nwaba and Mitchell both have huge wingspans. Same with Wade, Zhaire, and every other shot blocking guard I can think of lol.

 

[czvo]

Why would the Kings take Young when they have Fox and Bogi... you know what? Nevermind.

Jaren Jackson next to Marc Gasol would be AMAZING. Shame Gasol is closer to the end of his career than the beginning.

 

[Heej]

oh my god hard no to Miles Bridges. It'll take SGA over him. What eye popping athleticism are you guys seeing? I see a guy who the highest he can get his head on a dunk is 1 full foot below the rim and someone who doesn't even outrun college guards on a fast break. Oh, and he's a slow 2 foot leaper that has to load up like a moving truck just to lift off, no quick twitch explosion and his handles and driving angles are suspect. Hard hard hard pass holy shit were fucked if we get this guy imo

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

oh my god hard no to Miles Bridges. It'll take SGA over him. What eye popping athleticism are you guys seeing? I see a guy who the highest he can get his head on a dunk is 1 full foot below the rim and someone who doesn't even outrun college guards on a fast break. Oh, and he's a slow 2 foot leaper that has to load up like a moving truck just to lift off, no quick twitch explosion and his handles and driving angles are suspect. Hard hard hard pass holy shit were fucked if we get this guy imo

However you want to describe his athletic ability/explosiveness doesn't matter, it leads to him shooting 65%+ at the rim. It's one of his best attributes.

I'm not sure what type of handle and driving ability you want out of a guy that projects as a bigger 3 or small-ball 4. He proved in his Freshman season he's close to unstoppable playing there when being guarded by most opponents his size.

And you mentioned outrunning college guards. I haven't watched for that or anything, but don't know why that matters for his position? I hear you on the lack of quick twitch explosiveness, but he makes up for that and more with his motor and still above average athleticism, even by NBA standards.


Then you brought up Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in the same thought, who is just an inch shorter and I don't think I've ever seen him dunk once in my life haha.

 

[Nathan S]

However you want to describe his athletic ability/explosiveness doesn't matter, it leads to him shooting 65%+ at the rim. It's one of his best attributes.

I'm not sure what type of handle and driving ability you want out of a guy that projects as a bigger 3 or small-ball 4. He proved in his Freshman season he's close to unstoppable playing there when being guarded by most opponents his size.

And you mentioned outrunning college guards. I haven't watched for that or anything, but don't know why that matters for his position? I hear you on the lack of quick twitch explosiveness, but he makes up for that and more with his motor and still above average athleticism, even by NBA standards.


Then you brought up Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in the same thought, who is just an inch shorter and I don't think I've ever seen him dunk once in my life haha.

I'm just not sure he'll be able to defend any positions adequately at the NBA level. Seems like a guy who, in the best case scenario where his offense translates really nicely, will be just good enough on that end to make it worth playing him in spite of the matchup headaches he'll inevitably give you on the other end of the court.

 

[Heej]

I'm just not sure he'll be able to defend any positions adequately at the NBA level. Seems like a guy who, in the best case scenario where his offense translates really nicely, will be just good enough on that end to make it worth playing him in spite of the matchup headaches he'll inevitably give you on the other end of the court.

Lefty Tobias Harris?

However you want to describe his athletic ability/explosiveness doesn't matter, it leads to him shooting 65%+ at the rim. It's one of his best attributes.

I'm not sure what type of handle and driving ability you want out of a guy that projects as a bigger 3 or small-ball 4. He proved in his Freshman season he's close to unstoppable playing there when being guarded by most opponents his size.

And you mentioned outrunning college guards. I haven't watched for that or anything, but don't know why that matters for his position? I hear you on the lack of quick twitch explosiveness, but he makes up for that and more with his motor and still above average athleticism, even by NBA standards.


Then you brought up Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in the same thought, who is just an inch shorter and I don't think I've ever seen him dunk once in my life haha.

1) I can't comment on his finishing numbers because I don't know how well that translates to NBA from NCAA. I know rebounding and percentage on high volume shooting attempts translate but I imagine finishing at the next level isn't something that easily scalable. Don't know though, hopefully Nathan can expound upon that.

2) I want enough handle and driving ability to take 2 dribbles against a closeout and make a good decision. JR Smith is at 1.5 dribbles and you see how many record scratches that causes.

3) the outrunning college guards thing shows he lacks top end speed and is another arrow in the quiver shooting down this talk of top end athleticism.

4) motor is huge, I'll give you that. And he's still a decently above average athlete so that goes a long way. How's his rebounding at the position though? Cuz if he's not great at that and can't defend 3s he's got a huge hill to climb to be anything more than a barely above neutral impact player imo

5) SGA is a beastly athlete who throws it down hard. He's got real strength and explosiveness for the position and looks like a guy who projects to guard 1-3 and maybe some power wings. I scoffed at @Sir'Dom Pointer talking about him before but if the intangibles check out he has a good chance of reaching his 80th percentile projection which is probably pseudo All Star level (~19 PER and defense)

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Lefty Tobias Harris?



1) I can't comment on his finishing numbers because I don't know how well that translates to NBA from NCAA. I know rebounding and percentage on high volume shooting attempts translate but I imagine finishing at the next level isn't something that easily scalable. Don't know though, hopefully Nathan can expound upon that.

2) I want enough handle and driving ability to take 2 dribbles against a closeout and make a good decision. JR Smith is at 1.5 dribbles and you see how many record scratches that causes.

3) the outrunning college guards thing shows he lacks top end speed and is another arrow in the quiver shooting down this talk of top end athleticism.

4) motor is huge, I'll give you that. And he's still a decently above average athlete so that goes a long way. How's his rebounding at the position though? Cuz if he's not great at that and can't defend 3s he's got a huge hill to climb to be anything more than a barely above neutral impact player imo

5) SGA is a beastly athlete who throws it down hard. He's got real strength and explosiveness for the position and looks like a guy who projects to guard 1-3 and maybe some power wings. I scoffed at @Sir'Dom Pointer talking about him before but if the intangibles check out he has a good chance of reaching his 80th percentile projection which is probably pseudo All Star level (~19 PER and defense)

I had a full, detailed, comprehensive reply to your post a few days ago about SGA, but it disappeared for some reason after I came back from a break, so I kinda let it go.

I don't think that he is an explosive finisher though, he is crafty, long and is a good finisher with both hands...makes potential tough finishes look pretty effortless, which is great.

If it's important to you, I can go back and re-write the message.

 

[Nathan S]

Lefty Tobias Harris?

I think that's a very reasonable comparison. Of course, there's no guarantee that he'll develop into a 40%+ 3-point shooter like Harris did at the NBA level, so as an outcome I think that's sort of like his ceiling. A good-not-great offensive player and a mildly below-average defensive player. That kind of guy is worth a late-teens pick in most drafts (Harris went 19th), probably mid-20s in this draft. He'll end up going higher than that, but not rightfully IMO.

 

[Heej]

I had a full, detailed, comprehensive reply to your post a few days ago about SGA, but it disappeared for some reason after I came back from a break, so I kinda let it go.

I don't think that he is an explosive finisher though, he is crafty, long and is a good finisher with both hands...makes potential tough finishes look pretty effortless, which is great.

If it's important to you, I can go back and re-write the message.

It's all good maybe if we for some strange reason draft him

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

I'm just not sure he'll be able to defend any positions adequately at the NBA level. Seems like a guy who, in the best case scenario where his offense translates really nicely, will be just good enough on that end to make it worth playing him in spite of the matchup headaches he'll inevitably give you on the other end of the court.

It's possible he isn't a great defender. But I'd bet on him at least being solid at the 3, given his motor and likely lessened offensive burden in the NBA. Plus I think he's got the strength to defend the 4 in certain spots. That's a super valuable role... there's so many undersized 3's that can't defend some of the best wings in the league (LeBron, KD, Kawhi, PG13, etc.). Bridges at least has a shot at being useful there.

Lefty Tobias Harris?



1) I can't comment on his finishing numbers because I don't know how well that translates to NBA from NCAA. I know rebounding and percentage on high volume shooting attempts translate but I imagine finishing at the next level isn't something that easily scalable. Don't know though, hopefully Nathan can expound upon that.

2) I want enough handle and driving ability to take 2 dribbles against a closeout and make a good decision. JR Smith is at 1.5 dribbles and you see how many record scratches that causes.

3) the outrunning college guards thing shows he lacks top end speed and is another arrow in the quiver shooting down this talk of top end athleticism.

4) motor is huge, I'll give you that. And he's still a decently above average athlete so that goes a long way. How's his rebounding at the position though? Cuz if he's not great at that and can't defend 3s he's got a huge hill to climb to be anything more than a barely above neutral impact player imo

5) SGA is a beastly athlete who throws it down hard. He's got real strength and explosiveness for the position and looks like a guy who projects to guard 1-3 and maybe some power wings. I scoffed at @Sir'Dom Pointer talking about him before but if the intangibles check out he has a good chance of reaching his 80th percentile projection which is probably pseudo All Star level (~19 PER and defense)

I think finishing translation is a case-by-case basis sort of thing. I say that because there's different ways to be a successful finisher. SGA is a great finisher because of his length and ambidexterity. Others like Bridges are great finishers due to strength, motor, and jumping ability. Then there are others who are great finishers solely due to craftiness - like Kyrie for example. But yeah, not sure which types of prior success are most translatable to the NBA. I've started to pull some finishing #'s off of Synergy, and have done about 30 or so guys. Here are the players with higher finishing efficiency than Bridges:

Mo Bamba 74.5%
Daniel Gafford 69.3%
Chimezie Metu 68.4%
DeAndre Ayton 71.5%
Keita Bates-Diop 66.2%
Chandler Hutchison 65.5%
Robert Williams 73.7%

It's a very safe bet that Bridges will at least be an average finisher in the NBA - and I'd bet he'll exceed avg.

As far as handle goes, I'm not as concerned with that. His shooting off the dribble is certainly his biggest swing skill offensively for me, and he improved in the 2nd half of the year some I believe. But for his size, he's already a good enough ball handler. He already showed he's capable of running pick and roll (0.957 PPP - 74th percentile). Can't ask for a ton more for a guy of his size. For reference, SGA was 0.994 PPP this season and he basically carried Kentucky offensively for months.

Rebounding it's hard to say without watching a ton of film watching for that. But he did average 10+ reb/40 his freshman year back when they had him playing the 4. He also might be a top 5 offensive rebounder in the draft class for whatever that's worth. I don't think that's a problem.

And back to SGA. There is absolutely no shot that guy is guarding any NBA 3's with any success - let alone power wings. He's 180 lbs soaking wet. I just don't see the athleticism you're talking about from a verticality/explosiveness around the rim standpoint. I can't even find any dunks on a quick YouTube search either haha. I recommend checking out some that Bridges has had on there lol.

But I still like SGA alot as a prospect.

 

[Nathan S]

It's possible he isn't a great defender. But I'd bet on him at least being solid at the 3, given his motor and likely lessened offensive burden in the NBA. Plus I think he's got the strength to defend the 4 in certain spots. That's a super valuable role... there's so many undersized 3's that can't defend some of the best wings in the league (LeBron, KD, Kawhi, PG13, etc.). Bridges at least has a shot at being useful there.



I think finishing translation is a case-by-case basis sort of thing. I say that because there's different ways to be a successful finisher. SGA is a great finisher because of his length and ambidexterity. Others like Bridges are great finishers due to strength, motor, and jumping ability. Then there are others who are great finishers solely due to craftiness - like Kyrie for example. But yeah, not sure which types of prior success are most translatable to the NBA. I've started to pull some finishing #'s off of Synergy, and have done about 30 or so guys. Here are the players with higher finishing efficiency than Bridges:

Mo Bamba 74.5%
Daniel Gafford 69.3%
Chimezie Metu 68.4%
DeAndre Ayton 71.5%
Keita Bates-Diop 66.2%
Chandler Hutchison 65.5%
Robert Williams 73.7%

It's a very safe bet that Bridges will at least be an average finisher in the NBA - and I'd bet he'll exceed avg.

As far as handle goes, I'm not as concerned with that. His shooting off the dribble is certainly his biggest swing skill offensively for me, and he improved in the 2nd half of the year some I believe. But for his size, he's already a good enough ball handler. He already showed he's capable of running pick and roll (0.957 PPP - 74th percentile). Can't ask for a ton more for a guy of his size. For reference, SGA was 0.994 PPP this season and he basically carried Kentucky offensively for months.

Rebounding it's hard to say without watching a ton of film watching for that. But he did average 10+ reb/40 his freshman year back when they had him playing the 4. He also might be a top 5 offensive rebounder in the draft class for whatever that's worth. I don't think that's a problem.

And back to SGA. There is absolutely no shot that guy is guarding any NBA 3's with any success - let alone power wings. He's 180 lbs soaking wet. I just don't see the athleticism you're talking about from a verticality/explosiveness around the rim standpoint. I can't even find any dunks on a quick YouTube search either haha. I recommend checking out some that Bridges has had on there lol.

But I still like SGA alot as a prospect.

Mainly I'm worried about Miles's off-ball defense on the wing. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy you want chasing shooters all around the court (do you have synergy numbers to prove or disprove this?). My gut says his natural position defensively is PF, but obviously his measurements are significantly below average there.

We're totally on the same page on SGA. I like him, but he doesn't fit our timeline. Won't be an impact defender right away, and probably needs the ball in his hands more than we'd be willing to give it to him in order for him to develop optimally.