Adam
Reading and reacting
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2006
- Messages
- 9,748
- Reaction score
- 13,234
- Points
- 123
That's great news. Means his athletic ceiling is higher than previously thought
-
Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.
2018 NBA Draft - June 21
- Thread starter The Process God
- Start date
Sir'Dom Pointer
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2016
- Messages
- 21,634
- Reaction score
- 31,671
- Points
- 148
Lebron says that we have enough white guys on the team. Especially Non english speaking europeans...enough is enough.
Pioneer10
Come home Sideshow Bob
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2005
- Messages
- 16,676
- Reaction score
- 16,702
- Points
- 123
Sir'Dom Pointer
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2016
- Messages
- 21,634
- Reaction score
- 31,671
- Points
- 148
White guys from Slavic countries are fine: those dudes aren't like US whites
In what way?
Pioneer10
Come home Sideshow Bob
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2005
- Messages
- 16,676
- Reaction score
- 16,702
- Points
- 123
Former Yugoslavian certainly seems to produce a lot of great athletes across all sports:
Modric, Ibrhamavic, Petrovic, Dragic, Djocovic
If Yugoslavia was still around: they would have some year where they would have been loaded from top to bottom. That area is like American Samoa for football players but across multiple sports
12 players done. As always, I'd appreciate it if you point out anything that seems glaringly incorrect in my analysis. I only watched 2-3 full games plus highlights for most of these players. Overall ranking currently looks like:
T1. Doncic
T1. Jackson
3. Jontay
4. Smith
5. Carter
T6. Young
T6. Bridges
T8. Shai
T8. Bamba
10. MPJ
11. Ayton
12. Bagley
Mikal Bridges (38/60 overall)
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (37/60 overall)
T1. Doncic
T1. Jackson
3. Jontay
4. Smith
5. Carter
T6. Young
T6. Bridges
T8. Shai
T8. Bamba
10. MPJ
11. Ayton
12. Bagley
Mikal Bridges (38/60 overall)
Perimeter offense - simple rating 8/10, advanced rating 8/10
Brilliant shooter off the catch; high release point gives him a lot of gravity. Still hasn't developed a consistent jumper off the bounce, which limits his potential to be a volume scorer from the perimeter.
Interior offense - simple rating 5/10, advanced rating 5/10
Quality length and athleticism make him a strong finisher given the opportunity, but not a particularly creative finisher, and doesn't appear to have the handle or the first-step burst to get into the paint at will.
Team offense - simple rating 6/10, advanced rating 6/10
Not a point forward per say, but a high-IQ glue guy who was a central cog on one of the most efficient NCAA offenses in recent memory. Should be a plus decision maker at the NBA level too; a proven winner.
Total offense - 19/30
Perimeter defense - simple rating 4/10, advanced rating 8/10
Long arms and above-average quickness for his size make him highly switchable. Excellent fundamentals. Perhaps lacks a degree of physicality and "killer instinct" that would make him a truly elite perimeter defender at the NBA level.
Interior defense - simple rating 5/10, advanced rating 5/10
Got by guarding some NCAA bigs with his length alone, but really needs to add muscle to hold his own inside at the NBA level. Lack of innate physicality holds him back.
Team defense - simple rating 5/10, advanced rating 6/10
Smart and fundamentally sound, but not really the human highlight reel he should be in help defense given his physical tools and IQ. More solid than spectacular.
Total defense - 19/30
Brilliant shooter off the catch; high release point gives him a lot of gravity. Still hasn't developed a consistent jumper off the bounce, which limits his potential to be a volume scorer from the perimeter.
Interior offense - simple rating 5/10, advanced rating 5/10
Quality length and athleticism make him a strong finisher given the opportunity, but not a particularly creative finisher, and doesn't appear to have the handle or the first-step burst to get into the paint at will.
Team offense - simple rating 6/10, advanced rating 6/10
Not a point forward per say, but a high-IQ glue guy who was a central cog on one of the most efficient NCAA offenses in recent memory. Should be a plus decision maker at the NBA level too; a proven winner.
Total offense - 19/30
Perimeter defense - simple rating 4/10, advanced rating 8/10
Long arms and above-average quickness for his size make him highly switchable. Excellent fundamentals. Perhaps lacks a degree of physicality and "killer instinct" that would make him a truly elite perimeter defender at the NBA level.
Interior defense - simple rating 5/10, advanced rating 5/10
Got by guarding some NCAA bigs with his length alone, but really needs to add muscle to hold his own inside at the NBA level. Lack of innate physicality holds him back.
Team defense - simple rating 5/10, advanced rating 6/10
Smart and fundamentally sound, but not really the human highlight reel he should be in help defense given his physical tools and IQ. More solid than spectacular.
Total defense - 19/30
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (37/60 overall)
Perimeter offense - simple rating 4/10, advanced rating 5/10
Capable shooter off the catch, and high free throw percentage gives hope that he can extend this ability to NBA range.
Interior offense - simple rating 6/10, advanced rating 6/10
Some slithery quickness; crafty using his long limbs to finish over and around opponents and to draw fouls. Good-not-great handle and athleticism, combined with the fact that he's not a particularly threatening shooter off the bounce, will probably limit his ability to create.
Team offense - simple rating 9/10, advanced rating 9/10
Heady play really stood out on a team that featured a lot of knuckleheads. Stepped up in big games to make a moribund Kentucky team competitive. Very rare passing ability for a player of his size and age, could become one of the better pure point guards in the league.
Total offense - 20/30
Perimeter defense - simple rating 4/10, advanced rating 6/10
Can bother ballhandlers with his length and lateral quickness, but lack of strength and straight-line speed to recover may make him vulnerable to bigger, stronger NBA guards.
Interior defense - simple rating 4/10, advanced rating 3/10
Length can make him a nuisance, but slender frame greatly limits his potential impact inside.
Team defense - simple rating 9/10, advanced rating 8/10
Appears to be a pretty smart team defender, though it didn't always show on a team that was riddled with defensive weaknesses. Showed some potential as a ball hawk in passing lanes, where he could be deadly with his combination of length, quickness, and IQ. Ability to take care of the ball on offense is a major plus as well.
Total defense - 17/30
Capable shooter off the catch, and high free throw percentage gives hope that he can extend this ability to NBA range.
Interior offense - simple rating 6/10, advanced rating 6/10
Some slithery quickness; crafty using his long limbs to finish over and around opponents and to draw fouls. Good-not-great handle and athleticism, combined with the fact that he's not a particularly threatening shooter off the bounce, will probably limit his ability to create.
Team offense - simple rating 9/10, advanced rating 9/10
Heady play really stood out on a team that featured a lot of knuckleheads. Stepped up in big games to make a moribund Kentucky team competitive. Very rare passing ability for a player of his size and age, could become one of the better pure point guards in the league.
Total offense - 20/30
Perimeter defense - simple rating 4/10, advanced rating 6/10
Can bother ballhandlers with his length and lateral quickness, but lack of strength and straight-line speed to recover may make him vulnerable to bigger, stronger NBA guards.
Interior defense - simple rating 4/10, advanced rating 3/10
Length can make him a nuisance, but slender frame greatly limits his potential impact inside.
Team defense - simple rating 9/10, advanced rating 8/10
Appears to be a pretty smart team defender, though it didn't always show on a team that was riddled with defensive weaknesses. Showed some potential as a ball hawk in passing lanes, where he could be deadly with his combination of length, quickness, and IQ. Ability to take care of the ball on offense is a major plus as well.
Total defense - 17/30
Photon
Winning
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2005
- Messages
- 3,102
- Reaction score
- 2,174
- Points
- 113
Right now, Euro champ Slovenia, would not have more than 2 players (D&D) in ex-Yugoslavian team. But we stopped the production we once had.
Doncic with some nice work yesterday.
SGA critique; Shawn livingston is a very capable defender because of his length, despite average athleticism. In terms of a guard, he’s probably the best fit here if that’s the route they want because of his defensive projections with his length.
Maybe I could've given him a 7 (or even 8) on perimeter defense, from that perspective. But I do think strength and toughness on the perimeter are an important consideration too. I think Smith has a slight edge on him if we're looking for the best complete-package defender at the guard position.
Sir'Dom Pointer
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2016
- Messages
- 21,634
- Reaction score
- 31,671
- Points
- 148
Disagree on Smith. You are way overrating him. His style on both ends really benefitted him in College. While he is an absurd leaper/in game leaper, he doesn't have top lateral quickness, hands and length to be considered a top defender.
Zhaire was mostly guarding SGs/SF/PFs. He wasn't a PG defender.
Same thing applies for Smith on the offensive end, despite being known for being a top athlete, he doesn't have great first step, acceleration, top speed, change of direction...and his lack of ball handling really limits him as a creator, especially at the next level. And I have my reservations whether he is ever going to be even an average ball handler. He has tiny hand width at 8.25(It correlates with ball handling) and ball handling is something that you practice when you are young and if it's that bad at this stage's unlikely to improve much. I still hold some hope because he played as a 4/5 in high school.
I got a different impression...I thought Zhaire seemed really quick *without* the ball in almost all situations. While he often guarded bigger positions at the college level, I don't think that was due to an inability to effectively guard PGs and SGs, but due to the fact Evans (and Moretti) basically had to guard the smallest player on the opposing team to have a fighting chance.
On the other hand, the ball does certainly slow him down on offense (in contrast to Shai, who've very fluid with the ball in his hands). That's the big weakness in his game (and IMO the only reason he isn't a top-5 pick).
Sir'Dom Pointer
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2016
- Messages
- 21,634
- Reaction score
- 31,671
- Points
- 148
He never seemed really quick to me on the court no matter what. He always seemed bouncier than everyone, but as far as moving on the floor..nah.
I'm not saying that he can't guard PGs and Ball Handlers, i'm saying that you have no real data/significant data whether he can. I'll say that he never had to fight over screens much if at all, whether they were off the ball and on the ball. He was used as a switch defender almost exclusively... again, limiting your your ability to evaluate of him on the defensive end. With the measurements that we have of him, and the fact that College players are notorious for not being able to make an entry pass to save their lives with the limited spacing in College and the low skill level of PFs/Centers he was matched up defensively in 1 on 1 and on switches in the post also limits our evaluation of hm as a switch defender in the next level.
What's certainly going for him on defense and that regard is the willingness to compete and his intangibles. He doesn't have the measurements, skill or lateral quickness of an elite defender. He is not a pest, he doesn't have quick hand, he doesn't have the weight and he doesn't have the length, so what makes him an elite defender at the next level?
You think he is a better defender than De'Anthony Melton for example?
Another thing, other parts of his game just won't be there in the NBA. You think he is going to crash the boards like he did in Texas Tech? No way. There won't be the same opportunities and he will need get back on defense if he is indeed going to be a wing/Ball Handler defender. Part of the reason he was such in great position to crash the boards(Other than his ridiculous bounce and good anticipation that obviously helped him) was because he was moving and creeping inside the 3pt line almost all the time...also less 3pt shot attempts obviously.
He has holes in his game and his athleticism isn't as good as advertised. Surely his lack of fluidity with the ball isn't the only reason he isn't a top 5 pick. Again, you are looking at his advanced stats like OBPM, DBPM and BPM and conclude the he is a top 5 talent, when in fact those stats are inflated somewhat because of the way he played in College and who he was guarding. For example, his vertical leap and the fact that he was guarding big guys allowed him to stay in the lane and protect the rim. His block numbers are inflated.
Right now, I don't really see what his purpose is at the next level. He is going to need a good franchise and development.
I'm not a scout and I may be certainly wrong, but i'm not impressed by him as it stands.
I think we simply disagree in our assessment of him as an athlete. I think his combination of strength and lateral quickness is pretty nearly elite...his body seems much more NBA-ready than Shai's in spite of being a year younger. The only quibble I have with him is that, as you note, he doesn't have the super-quick hands characteristic of the very best NBA defenders.
My working hypothesis is that Melton is an alien who sat out this year because he was visiting his family on his home planet.
I'm not counting on putbacks being a big part of his offensive diet at the NBA level, but I am using his finishing ability on putbacks as a data point to evaluate his finishing ability in general, which is perhaps his biggest strength as a prospect.
Again, don't get the gripe that his athleticism "isn't as good as advertised." He's probably still 10 pounds or so below his ideal weight, but other than that, I don't really see any weaknesses. His vertical pop, factoring in the quickness with which he can load and get off the floor, is as good as anyone's. And his speed on defense and when moving without the ball on offense is pretty nearly elite as well. And while parts of his skillset are still very raw, I think they're raw more because of his young age and relative lack of experience, not because of a fundamental lack of motor skills and coordination.