2018 NBA Draft - June 21

[MD13]

https://youtu.be/QMn52maTVV8

He's got some things to work on and he's clearly nowhere close to what he'll be in a few years, but has any big with this combo of elite size, athleticism and skills busted (injuries aside)? Aside from those spectacular dunks, those iso step back 20 footers show an insane amount of skill for an 18 year old. He also had a sick one handed touch pass to the wing for a re-post that you just don't see from many freshmen.

 

[Lee]

https://youtu.be/QMn52maTVV8

He's got some things to work on and he's clearly nowhere close to what he'll be in a few years, but has any big with this combo of elite size, athleticism and skills busted (injuries aside)? Aside from those spectacular dunks, those iso step back 20 footers show an insane amount of skill for an 18 year old. He also had a sick one handed touch pass to the wing for a re-post that you just don't see from many freshmen.

The link is unavailable and you didnt mention the players name the entire blurb above.,

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

The link is unavailable and you didnt mention the players name the entire blurb above.,

It's available, you crazy.

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

Watched the second half of the Arizona game tonight to watch Ayton. He was his usual self on offense. He finally hit a three, after barely missing a few times this season. He also hit a fadeaway baseline midranger I had yet seen.

I mostly wanted to watch him defensively, as none of the highlights will ever show him really in certain areas. It's pretty clear to me the biggest thing he needs to work on is his defensive awareness. College ball is so bunched up and slow it's really tough to get a feel for guys' rim protection abilities. i didn't a single time really where he needed to help weakside off a drive.

He was involved quite a bit in the pick and roll. Unfortunately they were playing Cal State Bakersfield, who was running screens through a big that wasn't a shooter. That enabled him to just drop in the P&R coverage. The CSU ball handler beat his man off the screen, but respected Ayton's length to affect his shot, and really didn't challenge him or shoot off the screen.

Beyond that he was his usual self. Routinely was the first guy down the court, drew fouls, rebounded, etc.

I really do believe he will be near #1 on most boards in a couple months, and ahead of the other CBB bigs that are near the top. I'll add the highlight video to this post when I see it's uploaded.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMsrIImwCxk


I really don't love him right now.

He will get killed on defense at the NBA. Zero defense IQ, doesn't cover passing angles, doesn;t know when to stick to his man or help out, at times you see him with no one to guard for some reason... I don't like it.
Also, he is so stiff moving laterally... he will get punished in space.

He looks like a 7'1 Kevin Love on D.

Offensively, his shot is a work in progress. It will take time for his shot to translate to the NBA, especially from 3. He doesn't elevate high enough on his hooks, and he looks slow in general on his post moves. He will be a turnover machine at the NBA level against a double team in the post. Gets stripped and a slow decision maker right now.

He is strong and a good rebounder, but there are alot of red flags here.

 

[MirORich]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMsrIImwCxk


I really don't love him right now.

He will get killed on defense at the NBA. Zero defense IQ, doesn't cover passing angles, doesn;t know when to stick to his man or help out, at times you see him with no one to guard for some reason... I don't like it.
Also, he is so stiff moving laterally... he will get punished in space.

He looks like a 7'1 Kevin Love on D.

Offensively, his shot is a work in progress. It will take time for his shot to translate to the NBA, especially from 3. He doesn't elevate high enough on his hooks, and he looks slow in general on his post moves. He will be a turnover machine at the NBA level against a double team in the post. Gets stripped and a slow decision maker right now.

He is strong and a good rebounder, but there are alot of red flags here.

Is this just overall, regardless of slot, or judging him as if we get the 1st or 2nd pick and have all options available to us?'

In other words, would you feel different about him at 5 or 6 than you would at 1 or 2?

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Is this just overall, regardless of slot, or judging him as if we get the 1st or 2nd pick and have all options available to us?'

In other words, would you feel different about him at 5 or 6 than you would at 1 or 2?

No, not regardless of slots. I just don't like him 1st right now. It's all so early and this can all change during the season, but he is not a sure fire star. I actually see bust potential, especially if you add in the motivation issues.

This highlight doesn't show everything. I watched the full game and you can see some awful body language this early... he doesn't do much off the ball, he sets really weak screens that barely connect, he doesn't have any PnR game right now, but that could be because of their awful PG play. When he gets the ball in the elbow he always shoots it, he never attacks off the dribble... kinda similar to Ibaka.

Also, Trier is kinda ignoring him on offense at times so you gotta factor that in.

But don't get me wrong, he is very much intriguing, but you can see what he does well, I'm just pointing out the negatives that are there for the time being.

This video can give you an idea of his off-ball movement.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEYX4j0hHLo

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

If a team is running post ups for Ayton in the NBA enough to cause a team to double him, they likely aren't going to win anyway.

Trier ignores everyone on offense too btw, not just Ayton haha.

 

[Photon]

Do we have any reports regarding players character? Motor? Working habits? This is what usually makes or breaks this talented individuals.
I only know about Don, but that is just by following closely... I’ve seen him cry after he couldn’t deliver and cry after he did (euro basket). He added some wrinkles to his game immediately after euro (post ups, reduced protective dribble stance, worked on FTs). Would like to see what he is willing to do about his D.

Who do you guys see as most likely to cash in or their talent? ( I like Giannis’s attitude for example, he aims for the MVP, right away)

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

Do we have any reports regarding players character? Motor? Working habits? This is what usually makes or breaks this talented individuals.
I only know about Don, but that is just by following closely... I’ve seen him cry after he couldn’t deliver and cry after he did (euro basket). He added some wrinkles to his game immediately after euro (post ups, reduced protective dribble stance, worked on FTs). Would like to see what he is willing to do about his D.

Who do you guys see as most likely to cash in or their talent? ( I like Giannis’s attitude for example, he aims for the MVP, right away)

Only guy I've heard those sorts of things about so far is Ayton. Supposedly his motor in HS was up and down on defense and on the glass. I imagine a large part of this is he's always just been so much bigger than everyone else, and doesn't need the same level of effort as others.

But I've not seen much of that so far, just more of lack of defensive awareness and fundamentals.

I feel like I've heard really good things about Bamba on that front too. But it's pretty early. I don't think there's any DeMarcus Cousins types in this draft lol.

 

[Adam]

Only guy I've heard those sorts of things about so far is Ayton. Supposedly his motor in HS was up and down on defense and on the glass. I imagine a large part of this is he's always just been so much bigger than everyone else, and doesn't need the same level of effort as others.

But I've not seen much of that so far, just more of lack of defensive awareness and fundamentals.

I feel like I've heard really good things about Bamba on that front too. But it's pretty early. I don't think there's any DeMarcus Cousins types in this draft lol.

People questioned bamba's passion and drive but perception seems to be changing now he's blossoming in texas. Ayton is sloppy I'm areas nit the question is are they inherent or just a symptom of being bigger than everyone else

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

Speaking of an Antetokounmpo, one of his 2 younger brothers Kostas Antetokounmpo is starting to get minutes for Dayton. He had a nice game against Hofstra the other day.


First thing that jumps out is that he's much more similar to Giannis' build than the other brother we've seen Thanasis.
Giannis is 6'11, 7'3 wingspan
Kostas is 6'10, 7'2 wingspan
Thanasis is 6'6, 7'0 wingspan

I have no idea about the chances of Kostas making the NBA. He's not in the DraftExpress Top 100 from a week ago, but it will be fun to watch.


I watched the Duke game from yesterday as well.

More of the same from Trevon Duval for the most part. A good amount of his numbers came in transition, not the halfcourt. He did finally make a three off the catch in the corner. The main takeaway I had is how much Southern was pretty much ignoring Duval on offense all game. They were helping off Duval one pass away, and doubling the Duke bigs in the post. I really hope that Duke starts running more P&R the rest of the season. Duval will thrive there, especially with the bigs + shooting that Duke has, but I've not seen much of that. He can get downhill against pretty much anyone, and easily one of the best passers I've seen for this year's draft.

Pretty difficult to evaluate Bagley in this one because he was matched up against a guy listed at 6-8 lol. He got into the paint whenever he wanted, and from there it was a layup, or and-one pretty much every time. He struggled shooting FT's again, 5 for 9. He defended pretty exclusively on the perimeter. He gambled some and got out of position occasionally, but it's obvious he's very fluid for his size. It was good to see Duke playing a lot more man defense than that stupid ass zone. However, what was more interesting to me was that Coach K had Wendell Carter defending Southern's center and being the lone interior defensive big, rather than Bagley.


I was extremely impressed with Wendell Carter. He defended their best player most of the game. He's almost like the black Kevin Love for college basketball to me lol. He's got a strong base, which makes him a great rebounder. His post defense was good as well. I think the key from him though is his jump shot. He gets away with alot offensively simply because he's bigger than everyone else. I think if he can shoot the NBA 3 he'd be a solid 4 in the NBA. His lack of athleticism and elite size/length will hurt him much much more in the NBA.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Only guy I've heard those sorts of things about so far is Ayton. Supposedly his motor in HS was up and down on defense and on the glass. I imagine a large part of this is he's always just been so much bigger than everyone else, and doesn't need the same level of effort as others.

But I've not seen much of that so far, just more of lack of defensive awareness and fundamentals.

I feel like I've heard really good things about Bamba on that front too. But it's pretty early. I don't think there's any DeMarcus Cousins types in this draft lol.

One thing to keep in mind with Ayton. He's only been playing basketball for a few years.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

View: https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/931973146546188288



Already deep draft might be getting even deeper.... I like this kid quite a bit. Definitely was going to be a guy to watch next year for the 2019 draft...may not have to wait.

He's a pretty athletic kid. Scoring point guard. Can shoot the 3. Wonder where he'll be pegged on most big boards.... I'd take a serious look at him with our late first rounder. He'd basically be an automatic red-shirt even as a rookie. I'd have him play the whole year in the D-league and maybe bring him back up at the end of the year to get some action in April games.

 

[MD13]

Speaking of an Antetokounmpo, one of his 2 younger brothers Kostas Antetokounmpo is starting to get minutes for Dayton. He had a nice game against Hofstra the other day.


First thing that jumps out is that he's much more similar to Giannis' build than the other brother we've seen Thanasis.
Giannis is 6'11, 7'3 wingspan
Kostas is 6'10, 7'2 wingspan
Thanasis is 6'6, 7'0 wingspan

I have no idea about the chances of Kostas making the NBA. He's not in the DraftExpress Top 100 from a week ago, but it will be fun to watch.


I watched the Duke game from yesterday as well.

More of the same from Trevon Duval for the most part. A good amount of his numbers came in transition, not the halfcourt. He did finally make a three off the catch in the corner. The main takeaway I had is how much Southern was pretty much ignoring Duval on offense all game. They were helping off Duval one pass away, and doubling the Duke bigs in the post. I really hope that Duke starts running more P&R the rest of the season. Duval will thrive there, especially with the bigs + shooting that Duke has, but I've not seen much of that. He can get downhill against pretty much anyone, and easily one of the best passers I've seen for this year's draft.

Pretty difficult to evaluate Bagley in this one because he was matched up against a guy listed at 6-8 lol. He got into the paint whenever he wanted, and from there it was a layup, or and-one pretty much every time. He struggled shooting FT's again, 5 for 9. He defended pretty exclusively on the perimeter. He gambled some and got out of position occasionally, but it's obvious he's very fluid for his size. It was good to see Duke playing a lot more man defense than that stupid ass zone. However, what was more interesting to me was that Coach K had Wendell Carter defending Southern's center and being the lone interior defensive big, rather than Bagley.


I was extremely impressed with Wendell Carter. He defended their best player most of the game. He's almost like the black Kevin Love for college basketball to me lol. He's got a strong base, which makes him a great rebounder. His post defense was good as well. I think the key from him though is his jump shot. He gets away with alot offensively simply because he's bigger than everyone else. I think if he can shoot the NBA 3 he'd be a solid 4 in the NBA. His lack of athleticism and elite size/length will hurt him much much more in the NBA.

I don't really see a high NBA ceiling for Carter just because guys with his build can always be played off the floor in today's game. Maybe he can get even slimmer and improve his mobility to the point that he can switch as a 5, but I don't think he'll ever excel at it.

A big part of my frustration with evaluating college bigs is the antique offensive system that most college coaches run compared to the wide open NBA game. I'd love to see Ayton and Bamba operate primarily as roll men in a spread pick and roll scheme with 4 shooters, but that won't happen.

I think the lack of spacing in the college game actually helps Carter a bit since it forces them to play through him in the post and having Bagley around means he won't have to chase quicker guys on the perimeter. It hurts Bagley a bit too since Carter's man is usually parked in the lane whenever he starts one of his dribble drives.