2019 NBA Draft

[Cavatt]

Maybe a little? He's just so young, is the thing. Turner was 19 for his entire freshman year, and averaged less than 10 ppg. It wasn't until he was a 21-year-old Junior that he started to look like the real deal. So on that front, Barrett's ahead of the curve and could develop into a much more skilled ballhandler/scorer/passer than Turner. Of course, there's still a range of outcomes where he's better than Evan Turner offensively but not All-Star caliber.

And on the other hand, Turner averaged around 3.0 steals+blocks per 40 his whole 3-year career, while Barrett managed just 1.5. So long story short, I think Barrett's offensive floor and ceiling are both significantly higher than Turner's, but he also has some defensive questionmarks that Turner never had.

Still think the best comp for Barrett is simply a worse all-around version of Doncic.

A worse version of Doncic sounds pretty good to me.

I see Evan Turner as being one of these guys that has the skills of an allstar, but not the head. His decision making is just bad. Really, these days you have to be able to shoot better too, but he falls in that Tyreke or Jeff Green soft of zone, where if these guys had adjusted their games they could have been very very good if not allstar.

I don't see RJ as low IQ as these guys, but maybe I am off. I get the worry defensively, but I think people might be surprised about RJs ability to play drive and kick with some actual 3 pt shooters. I also am assuming these days that any semblance of a shot means they are going to be passable at least from 3. It seems like only the total non-shooters like Simmons and TT can't do it these days.

 

[Nathan S]

A worse version of Doncic sounds pretty good to me.

I see Evan Turner as being one of these guys that has the skills of an allstar, but not the head. His decision making is just bad. Really, these days you have to be able to shoot better too, but he falls in that Tyreke or Jeff Green soft of zone, where if these guys had adjusted their games they could have been very very good if not allstar.

I don't see RJ as low IQ as these guys, but maybe I am off. I get the worry defensively, but I think people might be surprised about RJs ability to play drive and kick with some actual 3 pt shooters. I also am assuming these days that any semblance of a shot means they are going to be passable at least from 3. It seems like only the total non-shooters like Simmons and TT can't do it these days.

I definitely don't see RJ as low IQ, and I like his potential as a drive and kick threat. It's his shooting and defense where I'm concerned. Simply being able to hit wide-open spot up 3's doesn't do much for his ceiling if you're hoping he'll be a star. He needs to be able to make 3's off the dribble at a high enough percentage that defenders respect him. It's possible that he gets there, but definitely not a sure thing.

 

[Cavatt]

I definitely don't see RJ as low IQ, and I like his potential as a drive and kick threat. It's his shooting and defense where I'm concerned. Simply being able to hit wide-open spot up 3's doesn't do much for his ceiling if you're hoping he'll be a star. He needs to be able to make 3's off the dribble at a high enough percentage that defenders respect him. It's possible that he gets there, but definitely not a sure thing.

Will Morant finish better around the rim, will he develop a pull up 3, will he ever be strong enough to defend? Seems like he has a lot of the same question marks to me at an older age. Why do you have him above Barrett? RJ seems capable of good defense and he has the body for it. That is yet to be determined for Morant.

I tend to the think that for his position RJ's playmaking is more impressive.

 

[Nathan S]

Will Morant finish better around the rim, will he develop a pull up 3, will he ever be strong enough to defend? Seems like he has a lot of the same question marks to me at an older age. Why do you have him above Barrett? RJ seems capable of good defense and he has the body for it. That is yet to be determined for Morant.

I tend to the think that for his position RJ's playmaking is more impressive.

I think you could argue it either way. I think Morant is a little bit more impressive athletically for his position, and I also trust his jumpshot a little more. 36% from 3 and 81% from the line is quite good, even if he does have the advantage of being a year older. On the other hand, he's much more of a loose canon offensively. It's no fluke he set a D-1 record for turnovers. Morant's also more of a risk to be a game-changing liability on defense. At least with Barrett he has enough size that if he ends up sucking you can usually hide him somewhere. Morant will be relentlessly targeted in pick&rolls. God help him if he ends up in Phoenix defending the pick&roll with Ayton. At the end of the day I still have Morant #2, but it's a close thing, and both are weaker prospects than I'd normally be comfortable with at 2/3.

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

Culver is closer to Evan Turner than RJ Barrett is to me.

Also on Barrett's athleticism... I definitely don't think he's a very functional athlete, or an underrated one.

I don't think he needs to be as much of a vertical athlete as the average player though, because his running lefty finish is pretty good and he shields the ball well. But he primarily gets to the rim due to his long strides and changing directions on those long strides... I would imagine it's really difficult to elevate off of those movements.

Will Morant finish better around the rim, will he develop a pull up 3, will he ever be strong enough to defend? Seems like he has a lot of the same question marks to me at an older age. Why do you have him above Barrett? RJ seems capable of good defense and he has the body for it. That is yet to be determined for Morant.

I tend to the think that for his position RJ's playmaking is more impressive.

Morant's passing is what separates those two for me. I consider him to be almost at Trae Young's level as a passer.

Like Nathan mentioned I also trust his shooting more than Barrett's also.

 

[BiGZD]

Hey does does anyone think the Sun's would trade out of the first slot if they win the lottery and if we have the second pick. It's wildly known they want Morant bad because they have no PG. I would think our 2020 first and Delly would get it done. They would be stupid just to pick him straight up at one when there's such a demand for Zion. Win/Win for both parties.

 

[Ozone]

Are they? He's a good athlete, but not a great one. That, combined with his just-ok first step and just-ok handle make it hard for him to effectively attack a set defense at this point. I'm not ruling it out, but if he's not getting to the rim at will at the college level it's hard to pencil him in as an All-Star level slasher in the NBA.

He isn't Zion,Little or Sekou level explosive but I don't know what you get just ok first step from. His first step is quick and repetitively beat his man off the dribble all season, his explosiveness and 2nd jump are elite or at minimum much better than league average even though some others in this draft have freakish hops. He is a high energy high motor player with a variety of offensive moves and I have a very difficult time seeing how anyone can scrutinize his outside shooting,occasional hero ball and favored left hand as enough negatives offensively to rank him lower than other guard wing types in this class.
His ability to make plays above the rim esp in transition along with his play making ability,handle,footwork,rebounding prowess & strength through contact and with size length the twitchy athleticism and speed make him more than capable of defending at the next level even though he was average in that dept in college.
Once he cleans up his ft % and works on his shot selection, this kid is going to be a special,as he clearly has the dog in him

 

[Ozone]

Hey does does anyone think the Sun's would trade out of the first slot if they win the lottery and if we have the second pick. It's wildly known they want Morant bad because they have no PG. I would think our 2020 first and Delly would get it done. They would be stupid just to pick him straight up at one when there's such a demand for Zion. Win/Win for both parties.

No, Cavs cannot trade the 2020 since it's still owed to ATL if outside the top 10 next year. And even if there is a loophole where they can give it up if it's in the top 10 PHO won't accept it as enough compensation in case it ended up going to ATL etc.
Cavs are not getting Zion if they don't win the lottery.

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

Certainly wouldn't agree with saying that Barrett has elite explosiveness. To me he's in a similar spot as Morant, in that the way he gets to the rim puts him in off balance positions where he's not going to be dunking on guys in the halfcourt or anything.

But to me his ability to finish through contact is almost more important. Once he adds more strength & adjusts his mentality some I think he can be a very very good finisher.

What does everyone think about Barrett's shot mechanics? He's average across the board according to the numbers whether off the dribble or off the catch... nothing catches my eye with his form at all, but he's never been a great shooter. Can it just simply be a lack of natural touch?

 

[Futuredome]

I actually think Barrett's first step is his most underrated feature. Like most true Frosh, he is raw. Much like Sexton himself. He will require 3-4 years of work compared to some of the others in the draft, but none of them have his all around skills and athletic ability combined to be be above average across the board. His ceiling is very very nice...........very nice. Maybe not top 10-25 all time but top 100, maybe top 50 depending on how he develops. Considering there is no Lebron or Dwade duo in this draft, we have to take what we can get.

 

[Nathan S]

I actually think Barrett's first step is his most underrated feature. Like most true Frosh, he is raw. Much like Sexton himself. He will require 3-4 years of work compared to some of the others in the draft, but none of them have his all around skills and athletic ability combined to be be above average across the board. His ceiling is very very nice...........very nice. Maybe not top 10-25 all time but top 100, maybe top 50 depending on how he develops. Considering there is no Lebron or Dwade duo in this draft, we have to take what we can get.

I think he's athletic enough that he has the potential to be a very good scorer at the NBA level if he can improve his handle. But I think he's always going to rely on handle/finesse to work his way into the teeth of the defense. Really don't think his first step is all that special, and at the college level that resulted in a lot of fruitless pounding the rock and settling for jumpers. Can't imagine that he's ever going to blow by NBA wings in the halfcourt.

 

[Cavatt]

I think NBA spacing is going to open Barrett's game up so much, and people are going to be like "Hmm I guess we didn't think he was going to be that great because of Zion"

I think he's the right fit on our team, and if the vets yell at him like they did at Sexton, they will be a fun team.

I know a lot of people want to win again, but I know that isn't very likely until we get a top 10 #1 guy. If we get Zion, I am all in on building a contender. Otherwise I want a try hard team that is fun to watch.

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

I think NBA spacing is going to open Barrett's game up so much, and people are going to be like "Hmm I guess we didn't think he was going to be that great because of Zion"

I think he's the right fit on our team, and if the vets yell at him like they did at Sexton, they will be a fun team.

I know a lot of people want to win again, but I know that isn't very likely until we get a top 10 #1 guy. If we get Zion, I am all in on building a contender. Otherwise I want a try hard team that is fun to watch.

That lack of spacing was really a double edged sword.

First, he had no driving lanes at all to speak of. He does need to clean up his mentality some with the head down drives right into the help man, though. While catching up on some of their games, I saw a play where Bolden was posting up looking for the entry pass and Barrett just drove directly into Bolden and his man lol. But with that said, he almost never had an open lane.

Second, the lack of spacing around him didn’t allow him to show off his passing as much as you’d like. I think he’s a very good drive & kick guy when he is a willing passer. There were quite a few clips were he had easy reads to Tre Jones, Jack White, or Goldwire in the short corner off drives that he ignored... so it’s tough to tell if he chose not to make those passes because of their lack of shooting ability, or because of his hero ball mentality.

I’m strongly considering Barrett as the #2 guy at this point. I think it’s scary for people that he doesn’t have one really consistent offensive skill to fall back on, myself included.

But he’s at least okay in basically every category on that end... you take his age + the flashes you see and I’d be willing to make the bet on him improving at least one of these areas. I’ve seen some pretty impressive ball handling flashes, for example. In their game at Wake Forest he had a Harden-esque stepback three. It feels like he’s just scratching the surface in so many areas.

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

@ 1:35 below is that step back I mentioned.

https://youtu.be/rlbhxzCHGYo

 

[Nathan S]

That lack of spacing was really a double edged sword.

First, he had no driving lanes at all to speak of. He does need to clean up his mentality some with the head down drives right into the help man, though. While catching up on some of their games, I saw a play where Bolden was posting up looking for the entry pass and Barrett just drove directly into Bolden and his man lol. But with that said, he almost never had an open lane.

Second, the lack of spacing around him didn’t allow him to show off his passing as much as you’d like. I think he’s a very good drive & kick guy when he is a willing passer. There were quite a few clips were he had easy reads to Tre Jones, Jack White, or Goldwire in the short corner off drives that he ignored... so it’s tough to tell if he chose not to make those passes because of their lack of shooting ability, or because of his hero ball mentality.

I’m strongly considering Barrett as the #2 guy at this point. I think it’s scary for people that he doesn’t have one really consistent offensive skill to fall back on, myself included.

But he’s at least okay in basically every category on that end... you take his age + the flashes you see and I’d be willing to make the bet on him improving at least one of these areas. I’ve seen some pretty impressive ball handling flashes, for example. In their game at Wake Forest he had a Harden-esque stepback three. It feels like he’s just scratching the surface in so many areas.

Mostly agree with this. I should clarify that when I say he has, e.g., a 50/50 chance of becoming an efficient inside-the-arc bucket getter at the NBA level, that's a compliment. Most prospects are too behind-the-curve either in skills or athleticism or both to have any potential to break down NBA defenses in the halfcourt. RJ has a lot of potential to do that, but his off-the-dribble game still has enough holes that it's not a sure thing.

The one thing that I do think is a sure thing for him is his passing ability. There are a lot of guys who're dangerous enough scorers to draw double teams and/or make the defense collapse on drives, but relatively few of them have the quick decision making ability to find the open man when that happens. I think RJ has that going for him and that's a big part of why he has the potential to be a real star, not just a run-of-the-mill 15-20 ppg scorer like, e.g., Langford.