2023-2024 Off-Season Thread II

[Ohioplayer00]

he's wiry !!

 

[shoes22]

This team is flying under the radar all summer can’t wait to see this team with the spacing we got now

I'm not sure you can say a major national outlet predicting us to finish 2nd in the conference is "flying under the radar"

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Assuming Mobley starts at the 5 until Allen returns then who starts at the 4? Niang or Wade? Either way we can see what the offense looks like with four 3-point shooters on the floor.

 

[Cavatt]

Assuming Mobley starts at the 5 until Allen returns then who starts at the 4? Niang or Wade? Either way we can see what the offense looks like with four 3-point shooters on the floor.

JB sounded like he wanted to stay big. Said Damian can do many of the things Allen does.

Guessing he starts

 

[shoes22]

JB sounded like he wanted to stay big. Said Damian can do many of the things Allen does.

Guessing he starts

If Jones can do "many of the things" Allen does for $2.5 million a year, what an indictment on Allen that is

 

[The Oi]

Can he fistfight?

 

[Cavatt]

If Jones can do "many of the things" Allen does for $2.5 million a year, what an indictment on Allen that is

Well the coach doesn't say "he's kind of a poor man JA"

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Just listened to the 50-minute podcast with Fedor and Nate Duncan of NBA League Pass, who seems to really know his stuff when it comes to the NBA. It was essentially Fedor interviewing him. Some of the points that were made that caught my interest:

1. The regular season is mostly about strengths while the playoffs are mostly about weaknesses. Weaknesses get exploited more in the playoffs when teams have more time to prepare for opponents. Last year the Cavs had a lot of strengths but they also had a lot of weaknesses. (Fedor added that a scout once told him there are 82-game teams and 16-game teams. Last year the Cavs were a better 82-game team).

2. The Cavs were weak at rebounding and on-ball defense against the Knicks last year. That hasn't changed with the new acquisitions. Any improvement in those areas will have to be internal.

3. It helps to have "diversity" in the playoffs so you can take advantage of your opponents' vulnerabilities. The Cavs lacked diversity - they were stuck in a pick-and-roll offense. When the Knicks came up with a plan to defend it the Cavs couldn't adjust. They need more two-way players.

4. In the off-season the Cavs did as well as they could to improve the roster with limited resources. They should be better but it's a question of how much.

5. Fedor pointed out the Cavs had the third worst bench last year. With Strus expected to start at the 3 it pushes LeVert to the bench which should make the bench stronger. Duncan was skeptical; LeVert has always been below average in true shooting percentage and is maybe a little underqualified as a "third creator" behind DG and DM. But with more long range shooters around him like Strus and Niang it might open up the inside for LeVert to operate and that could help him.

6. As for the big question as to whether the Cavs are viable with Allen and Mobley playing together or if they should break up their core group, it looks like they may be forced to make it work. Duncan ranks Allen as the 10th best center in the league. You can't trade the 10th best center for the 10th best small forward, which is what the Cavs need. They have no tradable draft picks. It's going to come down to Mobley's development. They won't be able to move Allen for a similar value.

7. Fedor asked about Mobley's ceiling, pointing out that Tristan Thompson is already comparing him to Anthony Davis and assistant coach Greg Buckner calls him "HOF". Duncan thinks Mobley can be a top 10 to top 5 defender, but he'll never be at that level offensively. Mobley's offensive skills (dribbling, shooting) are not at the same level as AD or Kevin Garnett when they came into the league. Duncan sees him as more of an Al Horford offensively, but better defensively than Al. Mobley's ceiling is maybe the second best offensive player on a good team.

(Horford peaked at age 26-27 at about 18 points and 9 rebounds per game).

Duncan thinks Bam Adebayo might be the most similar player to Mobley. Fedor mentioned that Mobley has very ambitious goals for this season; Defensive Player of the Year and an All-Star selection. Also, Strus has had film cut-outs made of him and Bam working together to get open shots for Strus and sent them to Mobley to study.

8. Duncan has Milwaukee and Boston clearly ahead of the Cavs in a playoff series. The Knicks would be a toss-up. The Cavs are still missing a two-way player at small forward (Strus is a weak defender). Also, the Cavs' best player is not on the same level as Giannis, Embiid, or Jayson Tatum, so that would be a problem in a playoff series.

9. Ty Jerome, now a bigger factor with Rubio MIA, is a player who is limited athletically and has to be hidden on defense, although he can defend within a team concept. He can pass and shoot, however. He's a good fit with the Cavs and a good value for the money.

10. Fedor pointed out that Mitchell and Garland will be staggered so that one is on the court at all times. So if Jerome isn't working they could pair DM or DG with Strus or LeVert at the 2 (and I assume use Okoro at the 3).

11. Having Mobley and Allen on the court together allows the Cavs to get away with playing two 6'1" guards. This could factor into whether Mitchell decides to move on after his contract in Cleveland is up. Duncan's question is where would he go? Not many teams can play two small guards together (the Cavs are a unique situation in that way). Mitchell doesn't fit with Brunson in New York. If Mitchell leaves he would want to go to a better team, but what team will be better than the Cavs in two years that Mitchell would be a good fit with?

As for next off-season, what kind of offers would the Cavs get for Donovan with just one year left on his contract? If the offers aren't great they may decide to just go for it with Mitchell in '24-'25. A lot can happen in the NBA in a year so it's tough to make any predictions. Some of the top teams a year from now won't have the resources or cap space to trade for Mitchell or absorb his contract even if he was a fit with the rest of their personnel. Like the Cavs they've already used all their draft picks and cap space to get to where they are now.

My comment: Damian Lillard just got traded to Milwaukee so if it's clear that the Garland/Mitchell pairing isn't working by the end of this season I'm sure the Cavs can come up with a creative package to move him while getting a decent return.

12. Duncan says that if he knew how great a season Lauri Markkanen was going to have in Utah last year he would not have made the Mitchell trade.

What is success for Cavs this season? How high is Evan Mobley’s ceiling? Wine and Gold Talk Podcast

On the latest edition of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast, Chris Fedor is joined by Nate Duncan of the Dunc'd On Podcast to preview the Cavs' season.

www.cleveland.com

 

[Cavatt]

Is Strus a bad defender?

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Is Strus a bad defender?

Supposedly he's not good. His defensive rating on the Heat last year was 3rd worst on the team, even lower than Kevin Love. Among all NBA guards he was middle of the pack.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Supposedly he's not good. His defensive rating on the Heat last year was 3rd worst on the team, even lower than Kevin Love. Among all NBA guards he was middle of the pack.

And as we've seen a lot being on a good defensive team raises the rating of crappy defenders, and vice-versa.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Supposedly he's not good. His defensive rating on the Heat last year was 3rd worst on the team, even lower than Kevin Love. Among all NBA guards he was middle of the pack.

Well, the Heat had him playing as a stretch four off the bench before they signed Love. Strus plays smart positional defense and has surprising strength, not unlike Delly when rotations left Delly on a forward. Unfortunately, both Delly and Strus have guard wingspans. That's the main reason his defensive advanced metrics took a nosedive in 2022/23.

 

[catfish]

Does Fedor give you anything substantive if you subscribe to him? The Athletic was always a zero and now it really is.

 

[Derek]

Does Fedor give you anything substantive if you subscribe to him? The Athletic was always a zero and now it really is.

Your gold name gives you access to far more info than a Fedor subscription would

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Just listened to the 50-minute podcast with Fedor and Nate Duncan of NBA League Pass, who seems to really know his stuff when it comes to the NBA. It was essentially Fedor interviewing him. Some of the points that were made that caught my interest:

1. The regular season is mostly about strengths while the playoffs are mostly about weaknesses. Weaknesses get exploited more in the playoffs when teams have more time to prepare for opponents. Last year the Cavs had a lot of strengths but they also had a lot of weaknesses. (Fedor added that a scout once told him there are 82-game teams and 16-game teams. Last year the Cavs were a better 82-game team).

2. The Cavs were weak at rebounding and on-ball defense against the Knicks last year. That hasn't changed with the new acquisitions. Any improvement in those areas will have to be internal.

3. It helps to have "diversity" in the playoffs so you can take advantage of your opponents' vulnerabilities. The Cavs lacked diversity - they were stuck in a pick-and-roll offense. When the Knicks came up with a plan to defend it the Cavs couldn't adjust. They need more two-way players.

4. In the off-season the Cavs did as well as they could to improve the roster with limited resources. They should be better but it's a question of how much.

5. Fedor pointed out the Cavs had the third worst bench last year. With Strus expected to start at the 3 it pushes LeVert to the bench which should make the bench stronger. Duncan was skeptical; LeVert has always been below average in true shooting percentage and is maybe a little underqualified as a "third creator" behind DG and DM. But with more long range shooters around him like Strus and Niang it might open up the inside for LeVert to operate and that could help him.

6. As for the big question as to whether the Cavs are viable with Allen and Mobley playing together or if they should break up their core group, it looks like they may be forced to make it work. Duncan ranks Allen as the 10th best center in the league. You can't trade the 10th best center for the 10th best small forward, which is what the Cavs need. They have no tradable draft picks. It's going to come down to Mobley's development. They won't be able to move Allen for a similar value.

7. Fedor asked about Mobley's ceiling, pointing out that Tristan Thompson is already comparing him to Anthony Davis and assistant coach Greg Buckner calls him "HOF". Duncan thinks Mobley can be a top 10 to top 5 defender, but he'll never be at that level offensively. Mobley's offensive skills (dribbling, shooting) are not at the same level as AD or Kevin Garnett when they came into the league. Duncan sees him as more of an Al Horford offensively, but better defensively than Al. Mobley's ceiling is maybe the second best offensive player on a good team.

(Horford peaked at age 26-27 at about 18 points and 9 rebounds per game).

Duncan thinks Bam Adebayo might be the most similar player to Mobley. Fedor mentioned that Mobley has very ambitious goals for this season; Defensive Player of the Year and an All-Star selection. Also, Strus has had film cut-outs made of him and Bam working together to get open shots for Strus and sent them to Mobley to study.

8. Duncan has Milwaukee and Boston clearly ahead of the Cavs in a playoff series. The Knicks would be a toss-up. The Cavs are still missing a two-way player at small forward (Strus is a weak defender). Also, the Cavs' best player is not on the same level as Giannis, Embiid, or Jayson Tatum, so that would be a problem in a playoff series.

9. Ty Jerome, now a bigger factor with Rubio MIA, is a player who is limited athletically and has to be hidden on defense, although he can defend within a team concept. He can pass and shoot, however. He's a good fit with the Cavs and a good value for the money.

10. Fedor pointed out that Mitchell and Garland will be staggered so that one is on the court at all times. So if Jerome isn't working they could pair DM or DG with Strus or LeVert at the 2 (and I assume use Okoro at the 3).

11. Having Mobley and Allen on the court together allows the Cavs to get away with playing two 6'1" guards. This could factor into whether Mitchell decides to move on after his contract in Cleveland is up. Duncan's question is where would he go? Not many teams can play two small guards together (the Cavs are a unique situation in that way). Mitchell doesn't fit with Brunson in New York. If Mitchell leaves he would want to go to a better team, but what team will be better than the Cavs in two years that Mitchell would be a good fit with?

As for next off-season, what kind of offers would the Cavs get for Donovan with just one year left on his contract? If the offers aren't great they may decide to just go for it with Mitchell in '24-'25. A lot can happen in the NBA in a year so it's tough to make any predictions. Some of the top teams a year from now won't have the resources or cap space to trade for Mitchell or absorb his contract even if he was a fit with the rest of their personnel. Like the Cavs they've already used all their draft picks and cap space to get to where they are now.

My comment: Damian Lillard just got traded to Milwaukee so if it's clear that the Garland/Mitchell pairing isn't working by the end of this season I'm sure the Cavs can come up with a creative package to move him while getting a decent return.

12. Duncan says that if he knew how great a season Lauri Markkanen was going to have in Utah last year he would not have made the Mitchell trade.

What is success for Cavs this season? How high is Evan Mobley’s ceiling? Wine and Gold Talk Podcast

On the latest edition of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast, Chris Fedor is joined by Nate Duncan of the Dunc'd On Podcast to preview the Cavs' season.

www.cleveland.com

Great post, Thanks. Personally, I think the East is a beast, and it will be more balanced than last season. I think the Cavs are much better, but may not win 50 games.
Plus, the last 2 seasons Dame played 29 and 58 games. Things happen during the regular season. I think people can slow their roll on the Bucks.