2023-24 Season | Game #17 | Raptors @ Cavs | Nov. 26, 2023 | 7:30 p.m.

[KilgoreTrout]

This thread is pure toxicity. If the team is losing or the game is in doubt the comments run 95% negative, some of them bordering on venomous.

There's a minority of people here who know basketball (and I don't consider myself one, I'm just a fan), and there are a minority who comment with legit criticisms of the coach and players. The majority just seem to be here to vent, to hate on players, and to trash players. Real Cavs Fans my ass. I'm ready to check the fuck out.

“Fan” is short for “fanatic”. That’s what we are.

And the absence of love is not hate; it’s apathy.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

That's pretty subjective. I'm not seeing a lack of effort or buy-in.However, they've dropped from #1 to #15 in defensive efficiency from last year. Teams are having an easier time scoring this season. That's partly because we've played the league's top scoring team, Indiana, twice and the 4th highest scorer, OKC, twice as well.

Having Allen out for 5 of the 17 games also hurt the defense.

I agree with the bolded, for the most part. We look like pretty much every other NBA team. Last year, I thought our effort was exceptional, and we usually out-hustled other teams.

 

[kookoo]

Someone else mentioned it but isn’t it obvious, the refs don’t like JBB… Could become even a bigger problem moving forward.

It's definitely faster to list who likes JBB over who doesn't.

 

[2 For The Brew]

HE didn’t. His PLAYERS did.

So the players lost the Knicks series then? Not the coach?

 

[2 For The Brew]

Cavalier management deliberately and publicly decided to get more offense at the expense of defense. We’ve played a difficult schedule and have had players out.

Let’s see how the season evolves. Too early imho to draw conclusions on how good we’ll be later in the season. When you make major changes in how you do things performance takes a hit until you’re used to the new way.

 

[jjvors]

The game, in a nutshell:

 

[CavsKermit]

I don’t give a shit if they won or not…no excuse not to keep CPJ incorporated in the rotation. It’s insane

I mean the only guys he can really guard on the Raptors are Flynn, Schroeder, and maybe GTJ. Given that you prefer to hide Garland on one, that means you need two out of three on the floor to play him.

This was the first game back for Mitchell and Okoro so I can see wanting to make sure those two got run. Also, the Cavs can't really play Okoro and CPJ at the same time. It may be that Okoro's minutes get cut some over the course of the season, but Okoro's probably going to get the opportunity to hang on to second string in the depth chart in a contract year and all.

Finally, the Raptors are a very good defensive team built around turning the other team over and CPJ looked a little shaky against the Lakers. He's a bit of a score first PG, and while he should be a very useful player going forward, we're on the clock with both Mitchell and Okoro, and seeing whether we can incorporate those two into a team-oriented offense really needs to be the priority.

 

[CavsKermit]

The game, in a nutshell:

But I don't believe they covered.

 

[jjvors]

The Strus is loose!

 

[jjvors]

But I don't believe they covered.

Weren't the Raptors favored?

 

[jjvors]

Good commentary from Sam The Bullshit Whisperer:

Dribbles: Determined Cavs scrap past Raptors, and ‘that’s what we need every day’​

By
Sam The Bullshit Whisperer
-
November 26, 2023

Random dribbles following the Cavaliers’ hard-fought 105-102 home win over the Toronto Raptors on Sunday.

1. It wasn’t always pretty but say this much — the Cavaliers simply refused to be denied. They just were not going to lose, a decision they appeared to reach at halftime.

...

Dribbles: Determined Cavs scrap past Raptors, and 'that's what we need every day'

Random dribbles following the Cavaliers' hard-fought 105-102 home win over the Toronto Raptors on Sunday. 1. It wasn't always pretty but say this much -- the Cavaliers simply refused to be denied. They just were

hoopswire.com

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I mean the only guys he can really guard on the Raptors are Flynn, Schroeder, and maybe GTJ. Given that you prefer to hide Garland on one, that means you need two out of three on the floor to play him.

I believe the idea is that CPJ should be the backup point guard on the floor whenever Garland isn't. But JBB apparently prefers Mitchell as the primary backup PG. So unless Garland is playing 48 minutes, CPJ should be getting some.

 

[Cassity14]

I mean the only guys he can really guard on the Raptors are Flynn, Schroeder, and maybe GTJ. Given that you prefer to hide Garland on one, that means you need two out of three on the floor to play him.

This was the first game back for Mitchell and Okoro so I can see wanting to make sure those two got run. Also, the Cavs can't really play Okoro and CPJ at the same time. It may be that Okoro's minutes get cut some over the course of the season, but Okoro's probably going to get the opportunity to hang on to second string in the depth chart in a contract year and all.

Finally, the Raptors are a very good defensive team built around turning the other team over and CPJ looked a little shaky against the Lakers. He's a bit of a score first PG, and while he should be a very useful player going forward, we're on the clock with both Mitchell and Okoro, and seeing whether we can incorporate those two into a team-oriented offense really needs to be the priority.

Garland or CPJ should be on the court 100% of the game.

 

[CavsKermit]

I believe the idea is that CPJ should be the backup point guard on the floor whenever Garland isn't. But JBB apparently prefers Mitchell as the primary backup PG. So unless Garland is playing 48 minutes, CPJ should be getting some.

I suspect it's not only JBB who prefers that Mitchell get a chance to run the offense with the second unit. Again, handing the second unit over to CPJ, who looked shaky against the Lakers, likely means that Okoro is out of the rotation in a contract year.

These aren't just simple rotation decisions. The ramifications are far greater for the organization as a whole, especially if one or both guys calls their agent and asks for a trade. Those aren't inflection points you want to force before you're ready.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I suspect it's not only JBB who prefers that Mitchell get a chance to run the offense with the second unit. Again, handing the second unit over to CPJ, who looked shaky against the Lakers, likely means that Okoro is out of the rotation in a contract year.

These aren't just simple rotation decisions. The ramifications are far greater for the organization as a whole, especially if one or both guys calls their agent and asks for a trade. Those aren't inflection points you want to force before you're ready.

I agree. I was just disagreeing with the implication of your post that Garland and CPJ would generally be on the floor at the same time. I don't think anyone really envisioned that.