2023-24 Season | Game #33 | Cavs @ Raptors | Jan. 1, 2024 | 7:30 p.m.

[bushwick_bill]

 

[bushwick_bill]

Didn’t see this game. Whose fault was the loss and why?

This board being the board going to assume JBB lol

Cleveland should have won this game; they got outplayed in the first quarter and had a slow start in the second quarter. It was New Year's on the road; a slow start makes sense... Refs were also infuriating, and so were the last two minutes of the game. My biggest complaint with JBB and these teams the last few years is how the team looks lost sometimes in the last two minutes of play; it seems like it is often an adventure.(But a lot of NBA games are so...)

 

[AustinCarr]

Would you get rid of both Mitchell and LeVert or trade one and keep the other for those stretches when open shots aren’t falling and a guy who go get a bucket can make a difference?

I'd, personally, want to keep one or the other...or make sure you have an on ball creator with decent size come back from a trade. It's a valuable skill to have on the roster. Just not how we use it or at the frequency it's used.

 

[bushwick_bill]

I'd, personally, want to keep one or the other...or make sure you have an on ball creator with decent size come back from a trade. It's a valuable skill to have on the roster. Just not how we use it or at the frequency it's used.

Levert (he is on a really really really nice deal right now) plus Rubio contract would be a nice trade piece somewhere when it happens...

 

[cavsfever]

It’s weird to talk about trading Levert vs trading Mitchell like this is the choice…they are totally different players (one a good role player and one a major star) who would get totally different returns and the roster construction and salary cap implications of who you keep are totally different as well. You would be choosing a different strategic direction for the team based on which you traded. Then there is the question of whether Mitchell will want to stay which I suspect will determine the decision for us

 

[bushwick_bill]

 

[wuck]

Would you get rid of both Mitchell and LeVert or trade one and keep the other for those stretches when open shots aren’t falling and a guy who go get a bucket can make a difference?

For sure trade Levert, but Mitchell will need either a much stricter coach or a true coaching tactician to make the most of his skills. Trading either of these ball-dominant guards won't solve the core issues/problems that make the combined talents of the team far less effective than the sum of its parts.

 

[Ohioplayer00]

For sure trade Levert, but Mitchell will need either a much stricter coach or a true coaching tactician to make the most of his skills. Trading either of these ball-dominant guards won't solve the core issues/problems that make the combined talents of the team far less effective than the sum of its parts.

Don’t forget it will be THREE ball dominant guards when Garland comes back.
You are correct when you say this team needs a much stricter and tactician type coach.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

We really needed Mobley tonight. Niang got called for five fouls in 16 minutes. He's way too slow to guard guys like Siakam, Barnes, Schroder, etc. He also missed an uncontested 3 from the corner and it wasn't close. He's making only 23% of his corner 3's. What a joke.

Against a quick, athletic team like the Raptors we needed Mobley's defense. But let's face it, Siakam was amazing. He's shooting 26% on 3's but tonight was 5-for-8. If he goes 3-for-8, still way better than his average, we win. He scored 36 points in 40 minutes and there was nothing we could do about it, which is why we needed Mobley.

LeVert had a great game with 31 off the bench, but he's shooting too many 3's. Tonight he was 2-for-7 on 3's and 10-for-13 on 2's. He's simply not a good 3-point shooter but he can get a layup or short jumper whenever he wants and he's a good passer off dribble penetration.

Dennis Schroder hurt us with blow-bys; he's too quick for most of the Cavs. He was +12, by far the highest on the team.

Merrill chipped in 16 points in 17 minutes to help give the Cavs a chance. He even made a couple of layups.

Allen was a little off - he missed some shots he normally makes. By my count the Cavs missed seven layups in the first quarter alone.

With the game on the line in the final minute and the Cavs trailing by 2, Okoro put up a 3-pointer. Missed, of course. Then Mitchell and Allen missed free throws that would have changed everything in the final minute. Mitchell also missed a 3-pointer and a floater in the lane. He had a nice game with a line of 26/7/7 and 4 steals, but he was just 8-for-21 and we need better. He couldn't get the bucket we needed at the end.

 

[Erbium]

If Jacquez keeps playing like this, I’d be hard pressed to pass up Herro+JJJ and some filler for Mitchell.

Both are contract and cost controlled, both can play a more team oriented game. Both more age aligned to Mobley/Garland/Allen.

We’d still need a lengthy wing, but you’d still have Levert/Okoro/Rubio to find one.

 

[AustinCarr]

It’s weird to talk about trading Levert vs trading Mitchell like this is the choice…they are totally different players (one a good role player and one a major star) who would get totally different returns and the roster construction and salary cap implications of who you keep are totally different as well. You would be choosing a different strategic direction for the team based on which you traded. Then there is the question of whether Mitchell will want to stay which I suspect will determine the decision for us

I wasn't saying anything about return or team strategy. I'm saying their play styles together lead to poor basketball.

You could replace the coach and hope the replacement we can get off the scrap heap can do better. Or we can trade one to alleviate the issue.

It's the wrong thread to go into the risks and benefits of either direction. By JBB just can't help himself with these guys, apparently.

 

[Dr No]

We really needed Mobley tonight. Niang got called for five fouls in 16 minutes. He's way too slow to guard guys like Siakam, Barnes, Schroder, etc. He also missed an uncontested 3 from the corner and it wasn't close. He's making only 23% of his corner 3's. What a joke.

Against a quick, athletic team like the Raptors we needed Mobley's defense. But let's face it, Siakam was amazing. He's shooting 26% on 3's but tonight was 5-for-8. If he goes 3-for-8, still way better than his average, we win. He scored 36 points in 40 minutes and there was nothing we could do about it, which is why we needed Mobley.

LeVert had a great game with 31 off the bench, but he's shooting too many 3's. Tonight he was 2-for-7 on 3's and 10-for-13 on 2's. He's simply not a good 3-point shooter.

Schroder hurt us with blow-bys; he's too quick for most of the Cavs. He was +12, by far the highest on the team.

Merrill chipped in 16 points in 17 minutes to help give the Cavs a chance. He even made a couple of layups.

Allen was a little off - he missed some shots he normally makes. By my count the Cavs missed seven layups in the first quarter alone.

With the game on the line in the final minute and the Cavs trailing by 2, Okoro put up a 3-pointer. Missed, of course. Then Mitchell and Allen missed free throws that would have changed everything in the final minute. Mitchell also missed a 3-pointer and a floater in the lane. He had a nice game with a line of 26/7/7 and 4 steals, but he was just 8-for-21 and we need better.

And Mitchell’s brain-dead clear path foul was an absolute killer. Let him have the layup and we are up 1. By the time the possession was over we were down 2. Those 3 xtra points are exactly how you lose close games

 

[MirORich]

For sure trade Levert, but Mitchell will need either a much stricter coach or a true coaching tactician to make the most of his skills. Trading either of these ball-dominant guards won't solve the core issues/problems that make the combined talents of the team far less effective than the sum of its parts.

Will he be a different player under a third coach then he has beem under JBB and Quinn Snyder?

And just as big a question is whether the next coach would ask him to play much different, as their are many NBA coaches(some considered bad, some considered average, some consider good) who would not ask him to be much different then he has been throughout his career. Though the next coach we hire might be an upgrade from JBB in several ways that we want and would appreciate, there’s no guarantee that coach asks Mitchell. To play substantially different. Nor is their a guarantee Koby (or let’s be real, Gilbert)l prioritize the next coach being primarily a flowing motion offense guy.

Just questions and hypotheticals really. I don’t have solutions and it wouldn’t matter even if I did.

 

[bushwick_bill]

 

[Otsego Mar]

Didn’t see this game. Whose fault was the loss and why?

This board being the board going to assume JBB lol

With about 3 seconds left DM was at the FT line needing to purposely miss his 2nd shot, as we were down 2. They called a bogus lane violation on us. There were quite a few odd calls IMHO.

But, we went on a heater (hitting big 3s) in the 4th and took the lead for the first time since early in the 1st. Both teams looked a bit sluggish from New Year's Eve.