2023 Season | Series #47 | Guardians @ Giants | Sep. 10-12, 2023

[Gson]

Right now, regardless of his role, Arias is on the 24 roster either as a SS or as an utility guy...

Rocchio can take away his starting spot, but Arias is young and has a spot going into next season... Let's see if he can keep that starting SS spot in camp...

who is on the roster in 24 wasn't the subject.. thanks for playing.. there will be some nice parting gifts...

 

[Gson]

Has it ever been discussed to try Arias in RF in a more permanent role?

At the least it would give Freeman/Rocchio more MiF opportunity.

that discussion has been had.. It becomes a realistic potential IF the CleFo braintrust see Arias as more of a utility guy than as a starting SS/3B/1B etc.. IOW..your suggestion,, has been considere and is more than a little possible...

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Has it ever been discussed to try Arias in RF in a more permanent role?

At the least it would give Freeman/Rocchio more MiF opportunity.

What sort of batting stats would Arias have to reach in order for him to be a plus-player in RF?

And how much more valuable would those stats be at SS?

If he can succeed in RF, you're better off actually having him play SS, and then using your prospect currency to pay for a RF if you need one.

If you're just talking for the rest of this year as a way to get Freeman more AB's, I think the org wants to just commit to Arias at SS--stop screwing with him, stop moving him around, just let the 23 year old kid be comfortable in a role he knows and see how it plays out.

 

[Otsego Mar]

What sort of batting stats would Arias have to reach in order for him to be a plus-player in RF?

And how much more valuable would those stats be at SS?

If he can succeed in RF, you're better off actually having him play SS, and then using your prospect currency to pay for a RF if you need one.

Good questions. Either SS or RF hopefully he produces better, because it’s definitely not a defensive issue.

I guess it all depends on who they could get at RF, and how much they value Freeman/Rocchio as a potential MiF.

 

[sportscoach]

who is on the roster in 24 wasn't the subject.. thanks for playing.. there will be some nice parting gifts...

That's irrelevant lol

He's extremely likely to be going into 24 as the SS, regardless of @Tondo likes him or not... So he just has to deal with that

 

[Gson]

That's irrelevant lol

He's extremely likely to be going into 24 as the SS, regardless of @Tondo likes him or not... So he just has to deal with that

IDC if @Tondo likes him or not.. that's another subject, as well.. The subject of the question raised remains and it still isn't who will be on the roster in 2024... Like MLB draft picks (save for Comp Balance Picks) you cannot trade your parting gifts..

 

[KluberSociety]

I guess that's where we'll differ.. Both Rocchio and Arias project as great defensive SS's.. (whoever said/convinced you that either Arias' or Rocchio's defensive prowess at SS have taken a hit.. need to learn what great defensive play really is) Gimenez is already a great 2B.. So, that's the middle infield of the future..

Gimenez was already a great SS before he got moved to 2B so Amed could play SS every day.

 

[southernflyer]

Things I know about Arias:
He isn't Felix Fermin. He isn't ARod or Bo Bichette, either.
If he (or Rocchio, etc) can average a Chris Taylor line with their defense the team will be in a great position.

The org needs to trust what their scouts and development team "see" and forecasting models project and pick who they envision succeeding. Play "that guy" 500 ABs. We all know keeping Voldemort at SS stunted growth of the youngsters this year.

If that guy is Arias, platoon him out when better than average LHP are starting. Have him work out the LHP issue with #3-5 starters.

Baerga had 1,500 MLB ABs to look at by the end of his age 23 year. Jose with over 1,100. Arias has under 400.

The people who are swearing Arias is only worth a bag of balls and used Victus bat, look at Dansby Swanson. He didn't replicate his rookie numbers from 148 AB his age 22 season until 1,800 ABs and four years later. People around here bitch about Tyler Naquin had a good couple of months with the Reds, Nolan Jones' numbers with the Rockies are inflated by a .375+ BAbip and King Kong Palacios has a good 45 ABs. I can only imagine the wailing if Arias was traded to the Pirates and became their version of Swanson in '26.

If Arias doesn't work out, figure out which one of Rocchio, Freeman, Tena, Brito to pair with Andres going forward. Rocchio would be 24, Freeman 25 starting the '25 season. If they pick Rocchio to get the 500 ABs next year, Arias would still be 25.

 

[sportscoach]

Things I know about Arias:
He isn't Felix Fermin. He isn't ARod or Bo Bichette, either.
If he (or Rocchio, etc) can average a Chris Taylor line with their defense the team will be in a great position.

The org needs to trust what their scouts and development team "see" and forecasting models project and pick who they envision succeeding. Play "that guy" 500 ABs. We all know keeping Voldemort at SS stunted growth of the youngsters this year.

If that guy is Arias, platoon him out when better than average LHP are starting. Have him work out the LHP issue with #3-5 starters.

Baerga had 1,500 MLB ABs to look at by the end of his age 23 year. Jose with over 1,100. Arias has under 400.

The people who are swearing Arias is only worth a bag of balls and used Victus bat, look at Dansby Swanson. He didn't replicate his rookie numbers from 148 AB his age 22 season until 1,800 ABs and four years later. People around here bitch about Tyler Naquin had a good couple of months with the Reds, Nolan Jones' numbers with the Rockies are inflated by a .375+ BAbip and King Kong Palacios has a good 45 ABs. I can only imagine the wailing if Arias was traded to the Pirates and became their version of Swanson in '26.

If Arias doesn't work out, figure out which one of Rocchio, Freeman, Tena, Brito to pair with Andres going forward. Rocchio would be 24, Freeman 25 starting the '25 season. If they pick Rocchio to get the 500 ABs next year, Arias would still be 25.

I feel like they would give them spring competition to see who gets SS...

 

[DCTribefan]

I’ll be at the game tonight. Should be a bullpen game with Giolito starting. Come visit me in Section 134 and watch me type “this bullpen…” live.

 

[Sebastian]

You know someone fucked up when Sebastian skips the cat photo warning and goes straight to a Mark Antony gif.

 

[Benway]

Those cups look highly snakebite resistant.

 

[Tondo]

150 PA is still a mighty small sample size, are you serious?

Above all it's another purified, cherry picked stat to excuse for Arias. If Arias has only 150 "real" PA that "count", then all of Benson, Rocchio and Freeman have 0 in Cleveland by that standard.

It's just another way of dodging the question of who to give those "real" reps to and why. Bimbo says it's not a commitment, just the first in line for a tryout. I'd like to believe that, but it doesn't look and sound like it.

And we're already hearing excuses for future underperformance, plus hedge betting at its finest. Bimbo has all bases covered, fine, but it doesn't answer for what's best for this team going forward.

I'm not a fan of the "let's throw spaghetti at the fridge and see what sticks" school of talent evaluation. But that's what most here seem to be cool with.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Above all it's another purified, cherry picked stat to excuse for Arias. If Arias has only 150 "real" PA that "count", than all of Benson, Rocchio and Freeman have 0 in Cleveland by that standard.

It's just another way of dodging the question of who to give those "real" reps to and why. Bimbo says it's not a commitment, just the first in line for a tryout. I'd like to believe that, but it doesn't look and sound like it.

And we're already hearing excuses for future underperformance, plus hedge betting at its finest. Bimbo has all bases covered, fine, but it doesn't answer for what's best for this team going forward.

I'm not a fan of the "let's throw spaghetti at the fridge and see what sticks" school of talent evaluation. But that's what most here seem to be cool with.

Please tell me how PAs jumping around spots or platooning is the same as as getting a long look at one position, a natural position.

Please tell me what learning new defensive positions entails on the fly during the season when it comes to pregame prep work for players.

Again, if you want to see Rocchio given an extended chance to play under the best possible conditions playing a natural position, you should be arguing the same for Gabe.

Really not that hard to understand.

And I’d agree with your final paragraph if we had a sure thing coming up behind Arias. But we don’t. There is no Lindor supplanting Jose in this scenario. Rocchio is no sure thing and the only thing holding his top prospect status is him not being on an MLB roster long enough to be exposed enough. Because he was exposed a bit.

If you give up on Gabe it better because you’ve exhausted all looks at him, which yes includes a longer look at him playing at a natural position where his focus is entirely on producing and not learning a new position while learning to hit MLB pitching. Because contrary to what you may believe, Rocchio himself is no sure thing to even be a “steady 100 MPH” car. He sure as shit wasn’t when he was up earlier.

 

[Tondo]

I've never disagreed about regular playing time being essential for a solid evaluation, but those perfect conditions almost never exist for any prospect, so why roll out the red carpet for Arias? Did Benson get a fair opportunity? Freeman? Not even Jose got that, he had to move position and earn it. And as we've seen with Jose or vice versa with Oscar or Naquin, you need hundreds up to 1000 PA to get the real picture. What does that mean for the other MIF if that's the qualifier for "a real look"?

It's about commitment and preference and if the org's eval process mirrors yours I think it's the next misstep. It's already an obvious commitment over Freeman, who most scouting reports and robots preferred to Arias. If it leads to Freeman never getting a real shot or being moved, that's already a mistake in my book.