#25: ATH, Jabrill Peppers

[blommen]

I generally have a hard time pinpointing good and bad coaching in football. Lots of people on here seem to be very skeptical of Gregg and to a lesser extent Haley and don't even get me started on Hue, but then I listen to analysts and experts around the league and everybody seems to hold them in very high regard, especially Gregg and Hue. Where does that disconnect come from? Is it just boneheaded playcalling and fuck ups or is there something fundamentally wrong in the way they deal with schematics and x's and o's?

 

[Pick6]

I generally have a hard time pinpointing good and bad coaching in football. Lots of people on here seem to be very skeptical of Gregg and to a lesser extent Haley and don't even get me started on Hue, but then I listen to analysts and experts around the league and everybody seems to hold them in very high regard, especially Gregg and Hue. Where does that disconnect come from? Is it just boneheaded playcalling and fuck ups or is there something fundamentally wrong in the way they deal with schematics and x's and o's?

It's the shit stain from 0-16 more than anything. A lot is different this year than the past 2, so I try to look at things at face value without bias. Greg does some questionable shit sometimes, but his defense is playing pretty damn good besides Oakland. I think Hue has been largely fine this year without the playcalling duties to worry about. I'm not going to call him elite or anything, but he's been fine. Good enough to win a Super Bowl someday? Unlikely, but hiring a first time NFL HC is pretty fuckin' risky. People will just nitpick the hell out of him because of prior years. I do find it funny how people want to forget about Jabrill's year 1 (and I was a bigger defender than most last year), but anytime Hue is brought up they go all "dur dur 1-31 dur dur". If we can give Jabrill some benefit of the doubt due to extenuating circumstance, why can't we with Hue? I was a huge Hue basher last year FYI.

FWIW, Weddle, who seemed very straightforward in his post game comments yesterday said that we have a great coaching staff.

 

[MirORich]

My question to you is; is Greg will Williams bad and the defense is playing top 4 in spite of him or is he a good coordinator? Or is it a little bit of both?

Why would it be surprising that Williams, who has coached some good and some excellent defenses before, is a good coach?

Last year had an offense giving the ball away at a record pace, it had a DB room that was not NFL level, and it had injuries to Garrett, Collins, and Ogbah.

Talent is going to make any coach look better and that’s how it works across all sports and all teams. Look at the guys who have caused the majority of our injuries: Ward, Randall, Mitchell, and Avery. Plus a healthy Myles.

 

[Jack Brickman]

My question to you is; is Greg will Williams bad and the defense is playing top 4 in spite of him or is he a good coordinator? Or is it a little bit of both?

I think that Williams has a ton of talent to work with and that, when his scheme works, it can be effective. The issue I see on a week to week basis is that his scheme is very easy to beat. He constantly sells out with blitzes, so we consistently get beat by receiving backs and short routes.

I mean, if Jon’s Gruden’s dipshit ass can crack our defense in a couple of quarters, how good can it be?

 

[The Voice]

Why would it be surprising that Williams, who has coached some good and some excellent defenses before, is a good coach?

Last year had an offense giving the ball away at a record pace, it had a DB room that was not NFL level, and it had injuries to Garrett, Collins, and Ogbah.

Talent is going to make any coach look better and that’s how it works across all sports and all teams. Look at the guys who have caused the majority of our injuries: Ward, Randall, Mitchell, and Avery. Plus a healthy Myles.

My comment was he’s underrated by people that are saying he’s ass basically. I’m not surprised he’s a good coordinator.

 

[The Voice]

I think that Williams has a ton of talent to work with and that, when his scheme works, it can be effective. The issue I see on a week to week basis is that his scheme is very easy to beat. He constantly sells out with blitzes, so we consistently get beat by receiving backs and short routes.

I mean, if Jon’s Gruden’s dipshit ass can crack our defense in a couple of quarters, how good can it be?

Mike Tomlin didn’t crack it, Drew Brees struggled, Joe Flacco couldn’t even score a TD and he’s playing out of his mind, and the raiders had the refs on their side.

 

[MD13]

I think that Williams has a ton of talent to work with and that, when his scheme works, it can be effective. The issue I see on a week to week basis is that his scheme is very easy to beat. He constantly sells out with blitzes, so we consistently get beat by receiving backs and short routes.

I mean, if Jon’s Gruden’s dipshit ass can crack our defense in a couple of quarters, how good can it be?

Wait until throwing screen passes on every third and long becomes standard against us. It seems to work every time since Williams will call for some sort of blitz guaranteed.

 

[The Voice]

Wait until throwing screen passes on every third and long becomes standard against us. It seems to work every time since Williams will call for some sort of blitz guaranteed.

Idk, I seem to remember a few passes almost being picked on screens

 

[I'mWithDan]

View: https://twitter.com/PFF_Browns/status/1049358164162990080

"87... barely B+ grade in most schools" - Mr. Orange probably

 

[The Voice]

What’s the highest grade PFF has ever given out for a game?

 

[I'mWithDan]

What’s the highest grade PFF has ever given out for a game?

99.9 is the highest grade possible.....a few players have received that.

I believe the most recent was Julio Jones, in his 12 / 253 / 2 TD game......he caught something absurd like 12 / 13 of 15 targets and the QB had a perfect passer rating throwing to him.

I think Donald and Watt have also had a few perfect games on defense.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Also, re: PFF rankings......it is interesting to see perception vs. reality on some of our players. I think Peppers is an interesting case study in that regard.

On the season, Peppers has graded out right on the edge of "high quality" with a 75.2 season rating. That is 25th amongst all graded safeties in the league (strong or free).

His numbers get even better when you look at snap counts and comparing him to regular players with 150+ snaps. Out of players with 150+ snaps at either safety position, he grades out as the 19th best safety in the league in OVR.

He also compares favorably to some household names:

Player A: 75.8 OVR, 73.6 COV, 75.6 RUN
Player B: 75.2 OVR, 74.8 COV, 68.8 RUN

Player A is Malcom Jenkins, player B is Jabrill.

Where Jabrill also stands out is how well rounded his game already is.....out of the 24 safeties ranked above him in OVR, only 14 have better RUN ratings, which most people wouldn't be surprised by.

What people may be surprised by is that Jabrill has comparable coverage ratings to McCourty & Jenkins and a better coverage rating (by 3 points) than Jamaal Adams.

 

[CBBI]

I generally have a hard time pinpointing good and bad coaching in football. Lots of people on here seem to be very skeptical of Gregg and to a lesser extent Haley and don't even get me started on Hue, but then I listen to analysts and experts around the league and everybody seems to hold them in very high regard, especially Gregg and Hue. Where does that disconnect come from? Is it just boneheaded playcalling and fuck ups or is there something fundamentally wrong in the way they deal with schematics and x's and o's?

It's a lot more obvious with Hue. There are perplexing at best, flat out wrong decisions at worst made by him every single week when it comes to clock management, timeout usage, challenges, etc. Generally speaking when it comes to any and all things situational he just seems very clueless. He also publicly acknowledged that he refused to simplify his offense for Kessler in 2016 or Kizer in 2017 when he was responsible for calling the plays despite the fact that neither rookie was prepared at all (especially Kizer) for the level of responsibility of what was being asked of them.

He was also responsible for hiring Gregggggg, Haley and Amos.

Greggggg's issues are more schematic. The Browns' defense has a LOT of talent. Through 5 games Greggggg is working with at least 3 and possibly 4 or 5 pro bowlers. Beyond that, his defense is being propped up by a ridiculously unsustainable turnover rate. The Browns right now are on pace to force 48 turnovers, which would be the most in a single season in since the 2000 Ravens and the second most since the 1989 Eagles. They've recovered 78% of opponents fumbles, which is the best mark in the league by a wide margin. League average is usually sub 50%.

Gregg's schemes routinely put his players out of position and he alternates between being overly aggressive in situations that don't warrant it and leaving the middle of the field wide open in obvious passing scenarios.

Some of these players - Garrett, Ogunjobi, Ward in particular - are so good that they can overcome a less than perfect play call.

I think the Browns defensively have so much talent that they're winning in spite of their coaching. If the turnovers start to dry up or if the Browns suffer 1-2 injuries on D, I think you'll see more and more games like the Raiders.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Greggggg's issues are more schematic. The Browns' defense has a LOT of talent. Through 5 games Greggggg is working with at least 3 and possibly 4 or 5 pro bowlers.

Yes, PFF also backs this up when looking at season ratings.

6 of the Browns 11 starters on defense grade out as fringe high quality or above (75 or better ratings).

The only other defenses in the league to have 4 or more:

Bears (5)
Patriots (4)
Eagles (4)
Jets (4)
Jags (4)
Skins (4)

So talent / player performance wise, the Browns / Bears are in their own tier.

Out of the 6 players on the Browns in that + rating tier, we have 3 guys bordering on elite overall ratings (Garrett, Schobert and Randall).....and Ward, as a rookie, is #7 in the league in corner OVR.

Truly, this defense should be even BETTER than it has been....which sounds crazy but I believe is true.

 

[Ob1]

Shouldn't Greggg get some credit for turning a lot of those guys into top talents? I'm not a huge fan, regardless, but some of it should be on him, right?