#52 DeShone Kizer

[Tornicade]

We just seen Carons Wentz, Dak Prescott and Cody Kessler have successful Rookie seasons as starting QB's

Kessler unfortunately had concussion issues

Only 3 Rookie qbs since 2010 have had winning records and that was because they were are on Crappy teams.

does 0-8 mean Kessler isn't a Superbowl quality qb?.. Troy Aikman was 1-14 or something as a rookie
42 quarterbacks since 2000 has started 9 or more games their rookie season.
Only 5 of them had a 90 or higher passing rating.


Kessler is solid competition for Kizer. So if somehow Kizer manages to beat out Kessler for the Job then he is more than ready to handle the "fire"

Also even if Kessler wins the qb competition . his durability is questionable, Kizer getting first team reps in the preseason will come in handy.


Jettisoning all the Vets eliminates the whole " best chance to win" Mantra that seems to dictate no matter how bad you are, the experienced qb always give you a better chance to win. <eyeroll>

QB competition is the best way to prepare to play both guys

as far as Osweiler only looking bad in Houston. I never thought he looked good in Denver.

 

[Lyst]

I couldn't disagree more....

Kizer is coming off a relatively poor year at ND in comparison to his RS Frosh year. He had difficulty reading coverages and one of his biggest knocks coming into the NFL is identifying coverages and knowing where to go with the ball.

I have no idea why you'd want to feed him to the lions right out of the gate? Let him absorb the league, show a better understanding in the QB room, and perfect his trade in practice while learning under Hue.

We aren't a good team....there's no need to crush this kids confidence in a year where we'd be lucky to sniff .500.

And beyond all that.....lets see what Kessler has. This is a huge year for him....he either has it or he doesn't. Best case scenario is Kessler shows some value while Kizer impresses behind the scenes.

Agree. But can we all be real for a second and admit Kessler is shit? How can you be an NFL QB when your weakness is arm strength? Isn't that what being a QB is all about. It will be a ticking time bomb before we force Kizer into starting, end of story.

 

[Tornicade]

Agree. But can we all be real for a second and admit Kessler is shit? How can you be an NFL QB when your weakness is arm strength? Isn't that what being a QB is all about. It will be a ticking time bomb before we force Kizer into starting, end of story.

Yet Kessler is 1 of only 11 rookie quarterbacks to average 7 yard per attempt with 9 or more starts since 2000

http://pfref.com/tiny/pyUS3

He also had the 5th highest passer rating and 4th highest completion percentage.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I couldn't disagree more....

Kizer is coming off a relatively poor year at ND in comparison to his RS Frosh year. He had difficulty reading coverages and one of his biggest knocks coming into the NFL is identifying coverages and knowing where to go with the ball.

I have no idea why you'd want to feed him to the lions right out of the gate? Let him absorb the league, show a better understanding in the QB room, and perfect his trade in practice while learning under Hue.

We aren't a good team....there's no need to crush this kids confidence in a year where we'd be lucky to sniff .500.

And beyond all that.....lets see what Kessler has. This is a huge year for him....he either has it or he doesn't. Best case scenario is Kessler shows some value while Kizer impresses behind the scenes.

I disagree with this a ton, especially Kizer not knowing how to read a defense. He can diagnose it pre snap. His problem is staying on read one a little too long, typical with young QBs.

And there is nothing that sitting on the bench is going to help in that aspect. This is the perfect year for him to go out and work on his game with no pressure but with live game action.

But thats just me, I guess.

 

[dark2332]

Agree. But can we all be real for a second and admit Kessler is shit? How can you be an NFL QB when your weakness is arm strength? Isn't that what being a QB is all about. It will be a ticking time bomb before we force Kizer into starting, end of story.

Agreed in general, but "shit" is too severe. I like Cody Kessler, but I think his ceiling is a smart game-managing career backup with his lack of an arm.

I think we should be okay with that. It's not an indictment. It's not like he's inept. A 10-year career as a backup that the coaches trust is not a bad thing. However, he's not the guy who is going to keep us from drafting a first round QB next year.

Kizer is a wild card because he has the tools. If he doesn't beat out Kessler in camp, you start Kessler. However, if he's remotely close to ready at some point this season, you play him. Sure, the coaches can get an idea on his abilities and improvement from practice, but it would benefit the team to see him in live game action before the 2018 draft.

Our line is improved, but it's probably a moot point anyway based on the number of QB's who have seen field time for us the last few years.

 

[billmac91]

Agree. But can we all be real for a second and admit Kessler is shit? How can you be an NFL QB when your weakness is arm strength? Isn't that what being a QB is all about. It will be a ticking time bomb before we force Kizer into starting, end of story.

Kessler, in my mind, could easily be as good as Andy Dalton......Andy Dalton would be a god-damn reincarnation of Jesus in Cleveland if we found that kind of success.

With that hyperbole being said, I have huge concerns about Kessler, number 1 being his arm strength. But guess what? Andy Dalton's arm sucks too...Dalton is what....a 3 time pro-bowler now?

 

[billmac91]

I disagree with this a ton, especially Kizer not knowing how to read a defense. He can diagnose it pre snap. His problem is staying on read one a little too long, typical with young QBs.

And there is nothing that sitting on the bench is going to help in that aspect. This is the perfect year for him to go out and work on his game with no pressure but with live game action.

But thats just me, I guess.

Not sure if you watched the Gruden specials but even on great throws, Gruden was calling him out for making the wrong read. His arm strength was good enough to make up for the wrong throw, but the point was made....

His completion percentage dipped which is uncommon for a college QB, since they typically progress. His turnover rate went significantly higher as well...which is abnormal.

He had issues last year.....but I like him as a prospect. He needs to be developed though. I just see zero reason to rush it....let him sit back and learn.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Kessler, in my mind, could easily be as good as Andy Dalton......Andy Dalton would be a god-damn reincarnation of Jesus in Cleveland if we found that kind of success.

With that hyperbole being said, I have huge concerns about Kessler, number 1 being his arm strength. But guess what? Andy Dalton's arm sucks too...Dalton is what....a 3 time pro-bowler now?

I am a huge Cody fan, but he's already had 2 known concussions. One more and you would have to think he would contemplate retirement.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Not sure if you watched the Gruden specials but even on great throws, Gruden was calling him out for making the wrong read. His arm strength was good enough to make up for the wrong throw, but the point was made....

His completion percentage dipped which is uncommon for a college QB, since they typically progress. His turnover rate went significantly higher as well...which is abnormal.

He had issues last year.....but I like him as a prospect. He needs to be developed though. I just see zero reason to rush it....let him sit back and learn.

All of these arguements can be easily explained. Although I have not seen the Gruden thing, i will have to find that on youtube.

For one, he lost a ton of talent from his receiver corp from 2015 to 2016. Not only did be lose a first round guy like Will Fuller, he lost his top redzone guy as well due to retirement *name escapes me*.

Throwing to young, inexperienced or flat out not good WRers can explain a large majority of his numbers drop. He also still has his mechanical flaws that need work, actual in game reps to solve. Its not that he needs to learn it, too. He has displayed correct mechanics before, but just not consistently.

Look, if Hue thinks he needs to sit behind Kessler for a few games, fine, whatever. But Kizer should play the majority of the year. If for nothing else but because we need to have some feel for him before the 2018 draft.

When I see Kizer, I see a guy who can start immediately and we could see really good stuff. His mechanics are not broken, nor is he inexperienced. His mindset is the type you want from a young QB, he looks downfield first then reads from there. Thats what you want from your starter! Weeden, Colt, Cody, Johnny, Frye, nor Couch ever had this philosophy. Its why I am absolutely thrilled to see him here. His potential is enormous, he reminds me a ton of Roethlisburger and Flacco.

But to get back to the point at hand, I dont think you can rush a QB too soon. Play the best guy, no matter what happens. I dont believe in playing a guy "too soon" or anything like that, unless his team around him might actually break him *like Cleveland 99 or last year*. It all depends on how he is coached when he does make mistakes. I have faith Jackson will know what to do with a young QB.

 

[AZ_]

Agree. But can we all be real for a second and admit Kessler is shit? How can you be an NFL QB when your weakness is arm strength? Isn't that what being a QB is all about. It will be a ticking time bomb before we force Kizer into starting, end of story.

His weakness isn't arm strength.

So no.

 

[Tornicade]

The reason Kizer was still available in the 2nd was not because ND was bereft of talent but specifically Kizers decision making was expose.

This is something he needs to overcome. Kizer constantly forced balls to less talented receivers when other receivers were wide open.

Kizer needs to practice against the first team defense and learn to not force the ball.

Id rather see Kizer if he comes in. come in later in the season. log in 5 or 6 games and be done for the season before NFL defenses can adjust to him.. This would give him another off season to to work on making the right play more than relying on talent to bail him out.

My concern with Kizer is how he plays once defenses adjust.

Kessler my main concern is his concussion history. The Browns will really need to work on ensuring he doesn't take (M)any blindsides.

 

[sportscoach]

Im not sure if you are just repeating a talking point, or not, but you are wrong. Very wrong. Manning had absolutely 0 impact on this trend as far as I can tell. Its been expected that a rookie QB, drafted in the first 2 rounds is the teams starter by the end of the season going back to at least 1993. The exception is almost exclusively when a player is drafted to learn behind an already very well performing QB (top 10 at the time). I will say that happened a lot more in the past, but still rookie QBs were expected to play.

Draft of 1999- Couch, McNabb, culpepper, Smith and McNown all guys that went in the top 12 of that draft. 4 of the 5 played in more than 7 games and 3 played in more than 12. That was 18 years ago. Culpepper was behind Jeff George and Randle cunningham. Cunningham goes on to be a pro-bowler and a first team all pro the following year.

Lets go to the 1997 draft (the year before manning and a very QB poor draft) 1 QB drafted in the 1st round. Jim Drunkenmiller who was drafted to learn behind Steve Young who while aging was still a top of the line QB (pro bowler). Drunkenmiller played 4 games that year. QB Jake Plummer went in the 2nd round and he played 10 games his rookie year

1996 Draft- 1 QB taken in the first 2 round- Tony Banks midway through the 2nd. He played in 14 games his rookie year

1995 Draft- Steven Mcnair first round Drafted to play behind Chris Chandler (top 10 QB at the time), played in 4 games
Kerry collins first round, played in 15 games his rookie year
Todd Collins drafted middle of the second to play behind Jim Kelly (HOF QB)
Kordel Stewart Drafted end of the 2nd to play behind Neil ODonnell (a top 10 QB at the time). Played WR his first 2 years

1994 Draft
Trent dilfer (the 1 guy that wasnt playing behind a top 10 QB, and didnt play his rookie year)
Heath Shuler played in 11 games his rookie year

1993 Draft Drew Bledsoe and Rick Mirer go 1 and 2 at the top of the draft. Bledsoe plays 12 games, Mirer all 16.

So to sum all of this up Going back 24 years for QBs drafted in the top 2 rounds it appears as though unless a rookie QB is brought in to explicitly learn from an already well established QB, he got thrown into play. Now its also clear that going back that QBs for the most part do not seem to be over drafted as much the further you go back. They were drafted much more in line with when they were expected to play, not their raw "potential"

Either way the times are different and QBs drafted in the first round are almost always required to start especially cause of the media and fans want them too. We were winning and the Crowds still demanded Manziel to play and so did our FO. Your argument is solid other than the fact QBs back then were draft based on where they should be not like in the current era where we draft QBs based off of potential and not how NFL ready they are. In that era there wouldn't have been a single QB drafted in the first round nor asked to take snaps in his rookie season if you look at the differences. Teams only will keep veteran QBs if they are at elite levels still otherwise they are cut for a rookie with potential. The amount of busted 1dt round QBs lately had been a lot higher than possibly any other era.

Also there is a huge difference in the last ten years when it comes to QBs, most top QBs in the draft start day one and they don't always pan out. With teams not keeping those veterans the young guys are forced to start and many before they are ready hence why we are seeing a ton of turnover in the NFL at QB. For every Manning and Ryan there is Gabbert, Ponder, RG3 type of guys. Not everyone can start right away and this current era says you have to start. Look at Goff last season, the coach wasn't planning on playing him, which isn't a wrong thing since the team wasn't good.

Wentz people forget was part of a pro style system and could do everything needed to play in the pros. Out of last year's class, he took the least amount of snaps in the shotgun and actually played under center a fair amount. He didn't have any concerns like Kizer does when it comes to the mental aspect of the games since in college watching his film, he seemed to often times throw to his check downs if he felt the big play wasn't there. Kizer made a bunch of boneheaded plays in college and was inconsistent with a lot of the aspects of his game. Wentz was ready to play in the pros, Kizer is far from it. Kessler was ready to play in the pros last season, on a Madden stat sheet if they were being sincere his throwing power and deep ball accuracy wouldn't be all that high, but his awareness, short pass accuracy and his mid throw accuracy will all be solid if not on the higher end. Now injury would be lower than I would like from a starting QB, but that's life.

 

[godfather]

I'll never forget Kizer's first game, and his game winning throw to Fuller for his first TD. He looked so overwhelmed up to that point, clearly not ready to play and only did because of an injury, then displayed he can flat out fling the football.

It was a HOLY FUCKING SHIT, get out of your seat moment.

 

[Lee]

I'll never forget Kizer's first game, and his game winning throw to Fuller for his first TD. He looked so overwhelmed up to that point, clearly not ready to play and only did because of an injury, then displayed he can flat out fling the football.

It was a HOLY FUCKING SHIT, get out of your seat moment.

Wish the decision making wasn't so poor because holy shit does he have arm strength.

I just fear we drafted the mobile Derick Anderson.

But no qb was worth a 1st and all top 5 were close, so atleast we got value out of the pick.

 

[UDcleveland]

But can we all be real for a second and admit Kessler is shit?

No...

How can you be an NFL QB when your weakness is arm strength? Isn't that what being a QB is all about.

No...

It will be a ticking time bomb before we force Kizer into starting, end of story.

Oh, well then I guess it's settled. Solid take all the way around.