Adams vs Gobert vs Len (alphabetical order and such)

[TwoPistols]

Steals matter for a big man...

Tim Duncan's steals by year: 0.4, 0.4, 0.7, 0.7 - he also played a ton more minutes than Len
Brook Lopez: 0.4, 0.6 - more minutes again
Roy Hibbert: 0.3, 0.2, 0.5, 0.5
Alex Len: 0.2, 0.2

 

[Nathan S]

5. Who is len's ceiling? Who is his floor?


Fraschilla: Ceiling -- Marc Gasol. Floor -- Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

Bilas: Ceiling -- Jonas Valanciunas. Floor -- Nikola Vucevic.

Elhassan: Ceiling -- Brook Lopez. Floor -- Spencer Hawes.

Pelton: Ceiling -- Andrew Bogut. Floor -- Meyers Leonard.

Telep: Ceiling -- Brook Lopez. Floor -- Michael Doleac.[/indent]

Anyone else notice that all 10 of these guys are white?

 

[EdMonix11]

Anyone else notice that all 10 of these guys are white?

It's ESPN, go figure.

 

[Josh Criiiiibbs]

Anyone else notice that all 10 of these guys are white?

To be fair, Lopez was listed twice so it's only 9.

That said, Doleac was so white that I'm ok with you counting him twice to make it an even 10.

 

[AZCavs]

Can someone please give a viable argument in favor of drafting Len with the top pick other than "It's a weak draft" or other similar arguments?

 

[Derek]

Anyone else notice that all 10 of these guys are white?

Brook Lopez is white?

 

[Soar]

Can someone please give a viable argument in favor of drafting Len with the top pick other than "It's a weak draft" or other similar arguments?

He has true center size. 7'1 255 lbs with a 7'3.5 wingspan.

He fits very well with Tristan and Tyler. I can see him playing with either player.

He is a hard worker with a versatile offensive game. Has skills on defense.

He can pick and pop with Kyrie and Dion.

We have a great environment to help him grow and succeed. We have his idol "Z" in the front office and fellow Ukranian big man and former Cavalier as coach in Vitaly Potapenko. Both men will help him adapt and learn quickly.

 

[AZCavs]

He has true center size. 7'1 255 lbs with a 7'3.5 wingspan.

He fits very well with Tristan and Tyler. I can see him playing with either player.

He is a hard worker with a versatile offensive game. Has skills on defense.

He can pick and pop with Kyrie and Dion.

We have a great environment to help him grow and succeed. We have his idol "Z" in the front office and fellow Ukranian big man and former Cavalier as coach in Vitaly Potapenko. Both men will help him adapt and learn quickly.

I still don't see how any of this merits the top pick in the draft. Trading down to get him is another story. And what is versatile about his offensive game? Out of the post position, he only knocked down 38% of his shots against college defenders. Anyone who actually watched Len over the course of his college career knows that he has a TON of work to do on both ends of the floor and his ceiling is much lower than Noel's.

 

[Nathan S]

Brook Lopez is white?

Mom:

Dad (95% sure...read that he played baseball in Cuba, and this is a Cuban baseball player of the same name):

Does that count as white?

 

[Soar]

I still don't see how any of this merits the top pick in the draft. Trading down to get him is another story. And what is versatile about his offensive game? Out of the post position, he only knocked down 38% of his shots against college defenders. Anyone who actually watched Len over the course of his college career knows that he has a TON of work to do on both ends of the floor and his ceiling is much lower than Noel's.

Len can shoot very well, post up a bit, and run the floor. Compared to Noel right now, Len is very skilled on offense. I agree Noel has a higher ceiling than Len, but I don't think Len has a low ceiling. I can see both being all star players depending on their health and the situation they are drafted into. I think Len's best chance to succeed might be with Cleveland and I don't think that can be overlooked when evaluating a player.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I still don't see how any of this merits the top pick in the draft. Trading down to get him is another story. And what is versatile about his offensive game? Out the post position, he only knocked down 38% of his shots against college defenders. Anyone who actually watched Len over the course of his college career knows that he has a TON of work to do on both ends of the floor and his ceiling is much lower than Noel's.

You don't draft a center as a finished product anymore. Those days ended with Tim Duncan in the early 90s. You draft a center based on frame, athleticism, work ethic, footwork, body awareness, and fundamentals. Len is promising on all fronts if his ankle checks out.

As for watching him play, he could stand to use his left hand better and i think he needs to establish position in the paint a little better. At the same time he held opponents post scoring to under 35% and did so on a partially fractured ankle, which is promising.

Are you really posting with an open mind or are you planning to just keep bashing Len? It would help us all with how we should respond to your posts. If your mind is made up, cool. Everyone gets to have an opinion.

 

[miller810]

I'd like to take Porter at 1 and somehow try and get back in the top 5 to make a play at Len. Or at least back in the top ten to maybe land Adams. Think Porter and either one of those guys is a quality draft.

 

[RyanStackAttack]

When he did receive the ball with his back to the basket, Drummond was generally ineffective in post-up situations, converting just 22 of his 68 (32%) field goal attempts this season according to Synergy Sports Technology.

Drummond did worse in post-ups than Len.

Passive. Disappears. Bad guard play.

There's some parallels. Most of all, like others have said, young bigs take time.

 

[AZCavs]

You don't draft a center as a finished product anymore. Those days ended with Tim Duncan in the early 90s. You draft a center based on frame, athleticism, work ethic, footwork, body awareness, and fundamentals. Len is promising on all fronts if his ankle checks out.

As for watching him play, he could stand to use his left hand better and i think he needs to establish position in the paint a little better. At the same time he held opponents post scoring to under 35% and did so on a partially fractured ankle, which is promising.

Are you really posting with an open mind or are you planning to just keep bashing Len? It would help us all with how we should respond to your posts. If your mind is made up, cool. Everyone gets to have an opinion.

Bashing Len? I don't think I am saying anything that isn't true. Len, while possessing nice measurables, has a very timid approach on the offensive end of the floor and it's his size alone that makes him intriguing defensively, not his skill-set. I take Noel before him. Noel can jump higher, has a mean streak -- especially on the defensive end of the floor -- and his length + leaping ability make him a prospect that can eventually finish strong around the basket on offense.

I look at the situation in Cleveland and who is running the ship. With Mike Brown back, I see Noel as the type of player who can negate the oppositions paint production with his shot-blocking and ability to knock the ball loose from the offense. While I see Len as a player who could develop as a solid defensive player, I don't see him as the shut down shot-blocker as I see in Noel. That's mainly why I don't understand why Len would be taken over Noel. If we were looking for another offensive weapon, then Len would be slightly more intriguing, but with Irving and Waiters carrying the scoring load, Noel's defense is more enticing, while Len doesn't really stand out (to me) on either end of the floor.

Again, if the Cavs trade down a few spots for Len, it makes much more sense. Taking him #1? I'll pass.

 

[Randolphkeys]

You are entitled to your opinion.

I was all in on Noel until word began to circulate that his knee was red flagged by NBA doctors, and it was structural problems that caused the red flag. I had minor concerns about his ability to play center rather than PF at the next level, but the structural damage is the game changer. If he doesn't pass the Cavaliers examination process and Len does, I take him.