Andrew Wiggins

[Randolphkeys]

@Sir'Dom Pointer I know you are a relatively new member here, but I bet you could have more productive discussions if you were open to other members being well researched. Plenty of people you argue with have been reading and posting about the Cavaliers here everyday. They probably picked up a few things in the process.

On the Wiggins situation: He is very good as a finisher on offense and he is a great pure athlete. He doesn't have health issues, and in that particular 2014 draft he hasn't been a bust. That said, I don't know why people continue the narrative that "The Cavs didn't have to include ____ to get Love." Obviously nobody was in the room with Griffin negotiating the trade. We can be certain that at the time of the Love trade, Griffin did everything in his power to secure the player while retaining assets. If it cost picks with Wiggins, then it cost picks. There's no 100% certainty to some alternate reality scenario.

 

[Douglar]

He's a hell of a basketball player, especially for how young he is. I find it bizarre that people are unable to acknowledge it.

He's certainly a hell of an athlete. But as far as the basketball side of things go, he's not progressing as fast as I expected. He's got the physical tools and he's gotten the minutes to develop but it's like he's got all the cheat codes but still doesn't know the right way to play. He's going to be a good basketball player because of his physical prowess, but at this point, it looks like his career trajectory is going to head towards Josh Smith if his basketball IQ doesn't start growing. His feel for the game isn't where it should be as a 3rd year pro who's played major minutes. He's not a bad player, he's just leaving a lot of potential on the table right now.

 

[BimboColesHair]

@Sir'Dom Pointer I know you are a relatively new member here, but I bet you could have more productive discussions if you were open to other members being well researched. Plenty of people you argue with have been reading and posting about the Cavaliers here everyday. They probably picked up a few things in the process.

On the Wiggins situation: He is very good as a finisher on offense and he is a great pure athlete. He doesn't have health issues, and in that particular 2014 draft he hasn't been a bust. That said, I don't know why people continue the narrative that "The Cavs didn't have to include ____ to get Love." Obviously nobody was in the room with Griffin negotiating the trade. We can be certain that at the time of the Love trade, Griffin did everything in his power to secure the player while retaining assets. If it cost picks with Wiggins, then it cost picks. There's no 100% certainty to some alternate reality scenario.

Thank you...one of his first responses to me was "its clear you've never watched Richaun Holmes"...and he's said that same "it's clear you've never watched so and so" line to more than one poster, which I believe he's done to you as well keys.

Good portion of this board knows way too much, for a Cavs dedicated site, about the rest of the NBA. Good portion of this board also knows way too much about the current CBA rules after the last 5-6 years too. Saying they don't know anything but you know more certainly isn't the best way to introduce yourself, not to this community.

Already rubbing some people the wrong way...

 

[Randolphkeys]

I'll go ahead and mention one thing that has impressed me about Wiggins compared to his rookie year - when I was very publicly down on him. He is finally making a better percentage of his threes so that the defense can't sag back on him, daring him to shoot. With that improvement, he is more aggressive driving off of the made outside shots and drawing fouls. Going into the draft, people thought Jabari Parker would be the best ISO scoring wing, but Wiggins has become his equal, just getting more attempts per game.

The problem continues to be that Wiggins was advertised to be so much more than an ISO wing, especially defensively. To this point, he's Jabari Parker with better athleticism but weaker rebounding.

 

[Pioneer10]

Can him and Lavine co-exist? It's like they both can't have dominant games together. LaVine has been hot lately right as Wiggins has struggled

 

[Adam]

Can him and Lavine co-exist? It's like they both can't have dominant games together. LaVine has been hot lately right as Wiggins has struggled

i bet more GMs call about Zach than Wiggins

 

[catfish]

Year 3 and a 16 PER and -2.8 RPM. He is a guy.

 

[cavsfever]

Does anyone have access to this Insider article? "How Can the Wolves Be So Good and So Bad"

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/sto...w-wiggins-minnesota-timberwolves-good-bad-nba

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

@Sir'Dom Pointer I know you are a relatively new member here, but I bet you could have more productive discussions if you were open to other members being well researched. Plenty of people you argue with have been reading and posting about the Cavaliers here everyday. They probably picked up a few things in the process.

On the Wiggins situation: He is very good as a finisher on offense and he is a great pure athlete. He doesn't have health issues, and in that particular 2014 draft he hasn't been a bust. That said, I don't know why people continue the narrative that "The Cavs didn't have to include ____ to get Love." Obviously nobody was in the room with Griffin negotiating the trade. We can be certain that at the time of the Love trade, Griffin did everything in his power to secure the player while retaining assets. If it cost picks with Wiggins, then it cost picks. There's no 100% certainty to some alternate reality scenario.

I didn't say anything wrong while we were debating Wiggins? Did I diminish a members knowledge in that discussion? can you please highlight it and show me a quote?

To sum it up, all I said was when you consider past trades in NBA history, you never see such a huge return for a disgruntled star that has one last remaining year on his contract.
It's usually a bunch of role players or picks.

Now, we know this team has a bunch of holes in it that need to be fixed, and the only way of acquiring a capable player is by adding picks, picks that the Cavs don't currently have, that I thought were uncessarily added to the trade when you consider all the factors.
Now don't act like Griffin is perfect at retaining assets and squeezing out the best deals, cause that's not true. He had to dump Varejao and a 1st round pick to Portland after he had signed Varejao to that bad 3/30m deal in 2014-2015.
Now he has TPE's that I believe he isn't going to use because the Cavs lack real assets and the new cap doesn't do the Cavs any favours.

That's all, and again alot of members here seem to have different views than I do and that's fine, but I can still debate my views? I have a tendency to rehash things from the past regarding myself and what I care about.

People here shouldn't disparage certain views because they are different than theirs or because it's against the "team", I don't think this team does everything perfectly so I thought that this was the place to talk about it?
I'm not offended by the arguments and I welcome them but I don't understand what's the point of a message board if not to discuss different views? or you all want to just agree with everything even if it's not clear cut?

And @BimboColesHair, I misread your post regarding Holmes and I had admitted it later, I don't understand your resentment. As for me calling others "It's clear you have never watched" is just not true and it never happened.

I'll try to be more careful with what I post in the future if it rubs people the wrong way..

 

[BimboColesHair]

I didn't say anything wrong while we were debating Wiggins? Did I diminish a members knowledge in that discussion? can you please highlight it and show me a quote?

To sum it up, all I said was when you consider past trades in NBA history, you never see such a huge return for a disgruntled star that has one last remaining year on his contract.
It's usually a bunch of role players or picks.

Now, we know this team has a bunch of holes in it that need to be fixed, and the only way of acquiring a capable player is by adding picks, picks that the Cavs don't currently have, that I thought were uncessarily added to the trade when you consider all the factors.
Now don't act like Griffin is perfect at retaining assets and squeezing out the best deals, cause that's not true. He had to dump Varejao and a 1st round pick to Portland after he had signed Varejao to that bad 3/30m deal in 2014-2015.
Now he has TPE's that I believe he isn't going to use because the Cavs lack real assets and the new cap doesn't do the Cavs any favours.

That's all, and again alot of members here seem to have different views than I do and that's fine, but I can still debate my views? I have a tendency to rehash things from the past regarding myself and what I care about.

People here shouldn't disparage certain views because they are different than theirs or because it's against the "team", I don't think this team does everything perfectly so I thought that this was the place to talk about it?
I'm not offended by the arguments and I welcome them but I don't understand what's the point of a message board if not to discuss different views? or you all want to just agree with everything even if it's not clear cut?

And @BimboColesHair, I misread your post regarding Holmes and I had admitted it later, I don't understand your resentment. As for me calling others "It's clear you have never watched" is just not true and it never happened.

I'll try to be more careful with what I post in the future if it rubs people the wrong way..

No resentment man. But you have done it with others, maybe you just didn't realize you did (check the Bucks discussion from a few days ago and some of your responses to Keys).

I've given you some advice before, and I will do it again.

It is not wise to come on this board and think or act like you know more than everyone here. A lot of dedicated people here who follow the entire NBA; from the individual front offices, coaching staffs, rosters, draft picks owed, CBA rules, stashed players, etc. Also a lot of people here who are better with stats than most people you can find who are actually employed to write about those stats while covering teams. We also have insiders connected with media members/people in the front office, actual media members who post in here, and some posters who know people inside other franchises as well.

If there is one big take away I have had in my time here, its that there is always someone, no matter the topic, who knows more than I do.

Argument and discussion is more than fine. That is the entire point of the board. But discrediting what the person you are arguing or discussing with knows on a topic isn't how normal argument or discussion works. Just be careful with that moving forward and you'll be fine.

Now lets get this thread back on topic with Wiggins.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

No resentment man. But you have done it with others, maybe you just didn't realize you did (check the Bucks discussion from a few days ago and some of your responses to Keys).

I've given you some advice before, and I will do it again.

It is not wise to come on this board and think or act like you know more than everyone here. A lot of dedicated people here who follow the entire NBA; from the individual front offices, coaching staffs, rosters, draft picks owed, CBA rules, stashed players, etc. Also a lot of people here who are better with stats than most people you can find who are actually employed to write about those stats while covering teams. We also have insiders connected with media members/people in the front office, actual media members who post in here, and some posters who know people inside other franchises as well.

If there is one big take away I have had in my time here, its that there is always someone, no matter the topic, who knows more than I do.

Argument and discussion is more than fine. That is the entire point of the board. But discrediting what the person you are arguing or discussing with knows on a topic isn't how normal argument or discussion works. Just be careful with that moving forward and you'll be fine.

Now lets get this thread back on topic with Wiggins.

I appreciate the advices, much obliged! do you have any advices for me outside of the board? maybe i'm doing some stupid stuff in the real world too :O

 

[BimboColesHair]

I appreciate the advices, much obliged! do you have any advices for me outside of the board? maybe i'm doing some stupid stuff in the real world too :O

Eat your vitamins and say your prayers.

And if you are being sarcastic, I will make you....OBSOLETE!

DELETE! DELETE! DELETE! DELETE! DELETE! DELETE! DELETE!

 

[Randolphkeys]

Yeah, I'd like to move past it, just saw you posting incorrect information on the TPE three times in a row. Time to open your mind at that point.

As for TPE value, yes I do agree the Cavaliers aren't going to add a long-term piece if TPEs are the only assets available. So many assets went into building a window of winning for LeBron, and in the next two years many of those key veterans will be older. Hindsight is 20/20, but giving up a lot of assets for Moz hurts; who knew he and Delly would become free agents in the cap space bonanza year?

I believe some role players out there can be acquired who don't look that great on a bad team, but would look great with LBJ/KI/Love. Channing Frye was the 8th or 9th man in Orlando, but put him on a veteran team and he is our 6th man. I have high hopes there are other vets out there who are the wrong fit in a bad team.

 

[cavsfever]

To sum it up, all I said was when you consider past trades in NBA history, you never see such a huge return for a disgruntled star that has one last remaining year on his contract.
It's usually a bunch of role players or picks.

Now, we know this team has a bunch of holes in it that need to be fixed, and the only way of acquiring a capable player is by adding picks, picks that the Cavs don't currently have, that I thought were uncessarily added to the trade when you consider all the factors.

Taking no position in the interpersonal pissing match happening right now, I do think Sir'Dom is absolutely correct about this. We were in too much of a hurry to make this trade and we didn't get as good a deal as we should have gotten. We really saved Minnesota's bacon by giving them a budding star in exchange for their departing star. Not really questioning the basic Love for Wiggins swap, but no way we should have had to give up a #1 in addition, or we should have been able to hold up Minnesota for another decent player (Dieng?). Our management was a little too eager to get the deal done and assemble their Big Three, and in retrospect they underestimated the importance of quality depth and assets. (A mistake they made again this year by letting Delly go).

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Yeah, I'd like to move past it, just saw you posting incorrect information on the TPE three times in a row. Time to open your mind at that point.

As for TPE value, yes I do agree the Cavaliers aren't going to add a long-term piece if TPEs are the only assets available. So many assets went into building a window of winning for LeBron, and in the next two years many of those key veterans will be older. Hindsight is 20/20, but giving up a lot of assets for Moz hurts; who knew he and Delly would become free agents in the cap space bonanza year?

I believe some role players out there can be acquired who don't look that great on a bad team, but would look great with LBJ/KI/Love. Channing Frye was the 8th or 9th man in Orlando, but put him on a veteran team and he is our 6th man. I have high hopes there are other vets out there who are the wrong fit in a bad team.

Yeah, I thought the Delly TPE was 10m and they used half of it, while in fact it was 5m to acquire Dunleavy, I stand corrected but it doesn't change anything right?
D-Wreck explained it to me and right after he did I even marked his reply as "informative". When I'm wrong I admit it, I didn't try to argue that meaningless point after that.