Andrew Wiggins

[Chris]

To be fair, the talk of an "overpay" where it pertains to the Love-Wiggins trade is the 1st rounder that we seemingly threw at them to consummate the deal quicker. Saunders was really after Wiggins and I don't think he was ready to fold over a pick not being included.

You're right that both teams "won out", but throwing in Miami's pick was just foolish asset burning IMO, and it stings especially right now given our asset dilemma.

There is no asset dilemma. Our team is young, and they are champions.

I suppose you always want to get better. But come on. At some point you just have to be content. Having that pick would be a luxury, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

A trade can benefit both sides

That's exactly what happened here. Both teams won.

But bringing Towns into the discussion of this trade is so far fetched. He has nothing to do with the trade

 

[Cassity14]

A trade can benefit both sides

That's exactly what happened here. Both teams won.

But bringing Towns into the discussion of this trade is so far fetched. He has nothing to do with the trade

Not just Towns, but even Dunn! He was like 17 when the trade happened!

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

There is no asset dilemma. Our team is young, and they are champions.

I suppose you always want to get better. But come on. At some point you just have to be content. Having that pick would be a luxury, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

They are champions but young? only Kyrie,Love and Shump are young, everyone else is geriatric.
There will be a point in time and it's going to be in the near future,where the Cavs are going to be stuck without a bench, there will be no Frye, RJ, Dunleavy D) and there will be no way for the Cavs to replace them with because they are over the cap.
What I meant by overpaying is that the 1st round pick wasn't necessary and the Cavs are now stuck with useless TPE's that they aren't going to be able to use.

As for Towns, that trade let Minnesota tank, something that they wouldn't have done otherwise if Love was still on board till atleast the deadline. It has no significance to the Cavs but Minnesota is a much more promising franchise now because of that trade.

Not just Towns, but even Dunn! He was like 17 when the trade happened!

Dunn was a Junior in college just so you know. And your snarky remarks are just distasteful.

 

[Derek]

They are champions but young? only Kyrie,Love and Shump are young, everyone else is geriatric.
There will be a point in time and it's going to be in the near future,where the Cavs are going to be stuck without a bench, there will be no Frye, RJ, Dunleavy D) and there will be no way for the Cavs to replace them with because they are over the cap.
What I meant by overpaying is that the 1st round pick wasn't necessary and the Cavs are now stuck with useless TPE's that they aren't going to be able to use.

As for Towns, that trade let Minnesota tank, something that they wouldn't have done otherwise if Love was still on board till atleast the deadline. It has no significance to the Cavs but Minnesota is a much more promising franchise now because of that trade.



Dunn was a Junior in college just so you know. And your snarky remarks are just distasteful.

We used a TPE last year to get Channing Frye, and another to get Dunleavy. I don't know how you can call TPE's useless when they've been used to add rotation players before.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

We used a TPE last year to get Channing Frye, and another to get Dunleavy. I don't know how you can call TPE's useless when they've been used to add rotation players before.

They are not going to use the 5m TPE from Delly and the 10m TPE from Varejao. Cavs gave up a 1st to get rid of Varejao and then used the TPE to trade for Frye but it was under the old salary cap.
Teams don't need to shed salaries nowadays without a big incentive and back then you could find a bad contract for 10m but now, 10m is a bargain for most players.
Cavs got Dunleavy to free up space for Wade, no team is going to need to shed salary at the deadline. So why would a team give us a player without any pick?

 

[Cassity14]

They are not going to use the 5m TPE from Delly and the 10m TPE from Varejao. Cavs gave up a 1st to get rid of Varejao and then used the TPE to trade for Frye but it was under the old salary cap.
Teams don't need to shed salaries nowadays without a big incentive and back then you could find a bad contract for 10m but now, 10m is a bargain for most players.
Cavs got Dunleavy to free up space for Wade, no team is going to need to shed salary at the deadline. So why would a team give us a player without any pick?

Teams move salary for a number of reasons:

-They are bad and have no interest in paying guys to lose games
-A team that thought it would be good underperforms and the core gets blown up (much like Chicago last summer)
-Teams want to avoid the luxury tax for either of the reasons above, or just because they don't want to pay it.

 

[Chris]

They are champions but young? only Kyrie,Love and Shump are young, everyone else is geriatric.
There will be a point in time and it's going to be in the near future,where the Cavs are going to be stuck without a bench, there will be no Frye, RJ, Dunleavy D) and there will be no way for the Cavs to replace them with because they are over the cap.
What I meant by overpaying is that the 1st round pick wasn't necessary and the Cavs are now stuck with useless TPE's that they aren't going to be able to use.

As for Towns, that trade let Minnesota tank, something that they wouldn't have done otherwise if Love was still on board till atleast the deadline. It has no significance to the Cavs but Minnesota is a much more promising franchise now because of that trade.



Dunn was a Junior in college just so you know. And your snarky remarks are just distasteful.

Kyrie, Shump, Tristan, Love all under 30. Three of those are among the top 4 players on the team. Meanwhile, LeBron looks ageless, and isn't old to begin with- he's turning what, 32? Window is open for another 3-4 years. Probably one of the most enviable situations in the league and you're trying to spin it like it's bad.

 

[Derek]

They are not going to use the 5m TPE from Delly and the 10m TPE from Varejao. Cavs gave up a 1st to get rid of Varejao and then used the TPE to trade for Frye but it was under the old salary cap.
Teams don't need to shed salaries nowadays without a big incentive and back then you could find a bad contract for 10m but now, 10m is a bargain for most players.
Cavs got Dunleavy to free up space for Wade, no team is going to need to shed salary at the deadline. So why would a team give us a player without any pick?

They already used the Delly TPE to acquire Dunleavy, and I don't know how you can say definitively that they won't use the Varejao exception.

You say team don't need to shed salary nowadays, but then we have an example of Chicago doing just that over the summer. There will always be teams looking to shed salary, it'll just be a matter of if the Cavs are interested in the player being shopped. I also never said the Cavs wouldn't give up a pick. I'm almost certain the Cavs would have to add in some sweetener to help facilitate a potential trade whether it's a pick, McRae, Felder, or the rights to a foreign player.

 

[The Oi]

The question is more of what his potential really is. As a comparison a 21 yo Carmelo was putting up 26 a game with PER of 22 and shooting 48% from the field. Certain guys like Billups take longer to mature but most superstars start looking like superstars by their 3rd year in the league

I mean...Wiggins probably is not going to be as good as Melo. Very few people in the history of the league have been.

If the Cavs hadn't traded him, I think there would be a lot more appreciation for him on the board.

He's a hell of a basketball player, especially for how young he is. I find it bizarre that people are unable to acknowledge it.

I understand that his efficiency leaves something to be desired and that he had a- GASP- terrible three game stretch. He does seem to be a me-first player, which makes his feel for the game seem a little off.

But some of you guys make it out like 21 year old kids who go from 17-20-24 ppg in their first three seasons grow on trees. And he hasn't even filled out yet. He has flashed a variety of different ways to score for a young kid.

At the very least, if healthy, he's a 3-4 time all-star.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

They already used the Delly TPE to acquire Dunleavy, and I don't know how you can say definitively that they won't use the Varejao exception.

You say team don't need to shed salary nowadays, but then we have an example of Chicago doing just that over the summer. There will always be teams looking to shed salary, it'll just be a matter of if the Cavs are interested in the player being shopped. I also never said the Cavs wouldn't give up a pick. I'm almost certain the Cavs would have to add in some sweetener to help facilitate a potential trade whether it's a pick, McRae, Felder, or the rights to a foreign player.

They only used half of Delly's TPE, they used 5m.
I mentioned Chicago as an example because it was done in the offseason while they were trying to fit in Wade. Right now, the Varejao TPE expires in February 18th, so it has to be used before the deadline and not in the offseason so it holds less value since teams usually don't try to clear space but rather trade to get picks for their players and tank if their season projection goes to shit.

There aren't many interesting players that are being paid less than 10m and if there are no team is going to trade them for the TPE. back in 2014 offseason the Cavs traded away Zeller, Jack and a 1st round pick for the TPE to clear space for Lebron (I still don't understand why they had to rave about trying to sign him in the first place and the Cavs had to dump good contracts cause teams knew they were desperate).

I don't expect the Cavs to find any bargains because of their past history but I will gladly take an L if they do manage to do so.

Kyrie, Shump, Tristan, Love all under 30. Three of those are among the top 4 players on the team. Meanwhile, LeBron looks ageless, and isn't old to begin with- he's turning what, 32? Window is open for another 3-4 years. Probably one of the most enviable situations in the league and you're trying to spin it like it's bad.

I'm really not trying to spin in like it's bad. All i'm saying is that the Cavs had tons of assets that some of them were uncessarily traded.
They never valued their 2nd round picks and I find them useful for contending teams.

All i'm saying is that the Cavs could have been in a perfect situation going forward if they had managed their assets better.

All I want is a little "dynasty" and not 4 year contention and then a rebuild.(Not that it matters anyways now and it's still the Andrew Wiggins thread, it just spiraled)

 

[Derek]

They only used half of Delly's TPE, they used 5m.
I mentioned Chicago as an example because it was done in the offseason while they were trying to fit in Wade. Right now, the Varejao TPE expires in February 18th, so it has to be used before the deadline and not in the offseason so it holds less value since teams usually don't try to clear space but rather trade to get picks for their players and tank if their season projection goes to shit.

There aren't many interesting players that are being paid less than 10m and if there are no team is going to trade them for the TPE. back in 2014 offseason the Cavs traded away Zeller, Jack and a 1st round pick for the TPE to clear space for Lebron (I still don't understand why they had to rave about trying to sign him in the first place and the Cavs had to dump good contracts cause teams knew they were desperate).

I don't expect the Cavs to find any bargains because of their past history but I will gladly take an L if they do manage to do so.

Actually the Delly exception was used in full to acquire Dunleavy. Because it was a sign and trade of a restricted FA, the exception that was created was for 50% of his contracted value for this upcoming season.

Not sure many of us would have expected Channing Frye to be a Cav at this point last year. Some interesting names will be made available toward the deadline, it happens every year. It's all a matter of how interested the Cavs are, and how motivated they are to strike a deal.

 

[Adam]

Actually the Delly exception was used in full to acquire Dunleavy. Because it was a sign and trade of a restricted FA, the exception that was created was for 50% of his contracted value for this upcoming season.

Not sure many of us would have expected Channing Frye to be a Cav at this point last year. Some interesting names will be made available toward the deadline, it happens every year. It's all a matter of how interested the Cavs are, and how motivated they are to strike a deal.

I think the cap jump makes it less likely deals the cavs favour will be available. we will have to wait and see though

 

[mrbeaks]

It's early days, but I thought we'd see immediate improvement from Wiggins on the defensive end under Thibs. He's basically the same player from last year. He doesn't pass, doesn't rebound, displays shit footwork on D and is scoring more only because his 3-pt attempts are up. (Also getting to the line a little more, which is obviously good.)

I enjoy watching the Wolves for KAT and LaVine, but Wiggins, aside from a flashy dunk every now and then, is a bore. And he's not improving in the areas that would make him an elite player. He's got the talent to get there, but it just doesn't look like he's putting in the effort. It's frustrating.

 

[Cavatt]

Actually the Delly exception was used in full to acquire Dunleavy. Because it was a sign and trade of a restricted FA, the exception that was created was for 50% of his contracted value for this upcoming season.

Not sure many of us would have expected Channing Frye to be a Cav at this point last year. Some interesting names will be made available toward the deadline, it happens every year. It's all a matter of how interested the Cavs are, and how motivated they are to strike a deal.

Yes, Older vets on bad teams who want to go to a playoff team will often be there.