AV, Cavs agree to deal - 6yrs, $42.5 million

[The George]

you are freaking NUTS if you think that any1 in Denver would hesistate for a second if we offered them AV for Chris freaking Anderson

Birdman is not even close to being on the same level as AV this year and if you think he is than you just do not understand basketball or you have not been watching both teams this year...

AV has taken some huge steps in his game this year and is scoring at a much easier ability with that backwards layup not to mention his jumper is slowly coming along and his FTs are much much better... Add on that the guy is completely clutch as he has won a few games for us this year with his shooting not just that 3ptr but he hit some clutch FTs as well...And on top of all of that you have his normal great stuff like his rebounding and hustling and his pick and roll play with lebron AND his defense which IMO should be ALL NBA this year for the 4 spot cause the guy is becoming a lock down defender at the 4

so NO I dont think it is fair to compare him to Birdman and YES he is worth every damn penny.... god damn

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

What I like about Chris Andersen more than Varejao is the shot blocking

That's pretty much all there is to like about Chris Andersen. He blocks shots, but Andy is still about 10 times the defender birdman is. His pick and roll defense(Andy) is off-the-charts amazing.

 

[Backstage]

VAnderson remains a less track-marked version of Chris Andersen.

Too soon to be fixed? Naw.

Birdman is exciting and, with his tattoos, hairstyle, and energy, is essentially a living cartoon, but what he has in flashiness Andy has in consistency.

 

[Kypus]

Are we patting our backs now? OK.

Wait...did I call the Anthony Parker signing sexy?

#443
Originally Posted by Kypus
Weird that there's 143 viewing the Anthony Parker thread and only 23 for the AV one...AP is the sexier signing, but nowhere NEAR as important as retaining Andy!

292 viewing Andy thread...that's more like it...

__________________

 

[oasis05]

Camby is one of the most overrated defensive players I've seen in awhile. The Nuggets improved defensively after he left significantly. I'd Andy or Anderson over him in a heartbeat.

He's the type of shotblocker who will go far an ill advised block instead of boxing out or staying with his man

I think that had more to do with the difference between Allen Iverson and Chauncey Billups than the difference between Nene/Andersen and Camby.

But I've heard people I respect say the same thing.

edit-

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/

looking at basketball reference Denver is actually giving up more points per possession than when camby and iverson were there. What has happened is they are scoring more.

 

[kovanovich]

Some good points n your post, but your underestimating Ben's value last year and overestimating Chris Anderson.

You are correct that Andy fills a gaping hole in our defense that Ben was also able to fill, but that's by no means a knock. Ben's skills have diminished but we're still talking about a guy that was a 4x DPOY, an All Star, and completely earned that $15m/yr contract - just unfortunately for Chicago he earned it in Detroit.

Heck, Ben's still contributing this year and is sporting a +9.3 net +/- (2nd on the team), and a -0.7 on-court +/- which is the highest on the team. You might think that by now Jason Maxiel could do everything for the Pistons that Ben can do, but you'd be wrong.

Opposing coaches drool over Andy, and there's a reason for it. What he does for us, would help plenty of other teams too.

Oasis does make some valid points, but it took a second read to pick them out...The Cavs' big rotation at the beginning of the year was unworkable. I was very concerned with it, and it was a big risk, IMO. The team was much more dependent on Andy as a result, even though he didn't pair particularly well with the team's new $20m man.

The point about the contract is also valid...Comparing Andy's contract with contracts given out to defense-oriented bigs in the middle of the decade (guys like Dampier, Dalembert, Wallace) is a bit misleading, since we are now in the era of the falling cap. That said, once Ferry failed to sign another PF in the off-season, he absolutely had to have Andy, and so all things considered his contract represents good value for the Cavs.

For those interested in such things, Andy's PER is now 15.94. I think PER is basically a valueless metric, though it does measure something, and by this measure Andy is doing considerably more than he has in previous seasons. It's certainly not because he has more opportunities on offense now that Ben Wallace is gone.

More to the point, I don't know how anyone who watches the Cavs games can still nitpick Andy's shortcomings. It is absolutely clear to me that he is the second most important player on this team. It is really ironic that the team has added successively Mo, Shaq, and Jamsion over the last two years, and despite this a role player, backup PF/C is still the team's second most important player. It was clear, once again, in the Boston game how Varejao can for spurts actually dominate a game. It's really rather remarkable. Even the national media types -- Hollinger, JVG -- are taking notice.

The fact that Andy gets most of his points off assists from LeBron is more or less irrelevant. It is a team game after all.

 

[JayP146]

Are we patting our backs now? OK.

Wait...did I call the Anthony Parker signing sexy?


__________________

Oh no, you probably meant his wife:

 

[The Voice]

Camby is one of the most overrated defensive players I've seen in awhile. The Nuggets improved defensively after he left significantly. I'd Andy or Anderson over him in a heartbeat.

He's the type of shotblocker who will go far an ill advised block instead of boxing out or staying with his man

Don't kid yourself. Melo took a long time to become a complete player. The acquisition of Billups also certainly helped. They had AI with Camby.

 

[The Oi]

Every time I think about the fact that Denver tried to make AI work alongside Melo it makes me laugh. They basically wasted a couple years of Melo's prime with that move.

 

[Splitz]

I want to pat my own back for when I simply posted "Pay the man" back in the day and I can't find it for the life of me. Andy has been fun to watch this season and I think his time playing with Brazil has been helpful in furthering along his progression.

 

[Jon]

What I like about Chris Andersen more than Varejao is the shot blocking and Andersen has a similar ability to Leon Powe of finding ways to get fouled. That is the biggest difference in their games. I also prefer Andersens tough Man defense. They both have similar per, plus/minus and I think that's largely due to the nuggets and cavs both lacking that other superior defensive player.

Both aren't anything special like a Camby, who does what they do better and can defend center as well as anybody. I like both of them more at power forward than center.

Varejao's only advantage to me is his age. Chris andersens past drug issue are a cause for concern but on the court I don't think there's any question Varejao has some work to do.

One of the things Andy does is get us the ball, by whatever means necessary. A shot block is just one way he gets it done, and unfortunately for him the NBA doesn't track all the means, but of the ones they do Andy is averaging 4.5 a+s+orb per game, while Andersen is at 4.4, Ben is at 6.1, and Camby is at 6.7.

The shot blocks are nice, but they don't credit Andy for the shots he contests and causes to miss, for the other players he picks up and stops, nor for the P&R's he deters.

Opponents shoot an eFG of 46.5% when Varejao is on the court (net -2.8), Anderson is at 47.1% (net -4.2%), Ben is at 50.1% (net -2.7), Camby/LAC is at 50% and -0.4%, and Camby/POR is at 49.9% and -0.4%.

The interesting thing here is Camby's dominance of the defensive stats is not conveying as much to his team's defense as the other players which just goes to show a defense can't just rely on a shot blocker - they have to play D as a team. In fact out of the bunch, Cleveland is the only above average defensive team - and that's why out of the bunch Andy is the one who deserves DPOY consideration.

 

[Jon]

Don't kid yourself. Melo took a long time to become a complete player. The acquisition of Billups also certainly helped. They had AI with Camby.

Heck, we still have Mo, Shaq, Jamison, Z, and JJ - who all struggle in different areas on defense. If Andy can cover for Mo, shouldn't Camby have been able to cover for Iverson?

You'd think the Nuggets could manage higher than 16th in defense with athletic and mobile players like Andersen, Nene, Martin, Anthony, Affalo, and Smith combined with a terrific defender like Billlups.

 

[Lee]

I never saw a problem with paying him as much as Drew was getting, which would have started him out around $8m and would have come close to getting him his $10m/yr ... at least on average. We've got one heck of a bargain right now, but it's a long contract and its final value will be determined by how well he holds up over the length of it.

In this thread my main concern was what signing Andy would do to our cap space and options in 2010 free agency. It was the first all in move, that DF made followed up by Parker, Moon, and Jamison.

All along I have been saying we wouldnt be players in the 2010 free agency (outside of resigning Lebron). I also think that 2010 free agency will be a big disappointment for most teams with major cap space. More like Detroit last year. Sure you can add a piece, but you will over pay for that piece and still suck.

 

[DougHeil]

you are freaking NUTS if you think that any1 in Denver would hesistate for a second if we offered them AV for Chris freaking Anderson

Birdman is not even close to being on the same level as AV this year and if you think he is than you just do not understand basketball or you have not been watching both teams this year...

AV has taken some huge steps in his game this year and is scoring at a much easier ability with that backwards layup not to mention his jumper is slowly coming along and his FTs are much much better... Add on that the guy is completely clutch as he has won a few games for us this year with his shooting not just that 3ptr but he hit some clutch FTs as well...And on top of all of that you have his normal great stuff like his rebounding and hustling and his pick and roll play with lebron AND his defense which IMO should be ALL NBA this year for the 4 spot cause the guy is becoming a lock down defender at the 4

so NO I dont think it is fair to compare him to Birdman and YES he is worth every damn penny.... god damn

I've also heard him compared to Noah. Both Noah and Birdman. For me; there is zero comparison to be made. Those guys couldn't be the shoe shiner for what Andy brings to the floor. Would either Chicago or Denver swap players? Hell yes they would.... without hesitation. Would we? Hell NO.

 

[The Oi]

I've also heard him compared to Noah. Both Noah and Birdman. For me; there is zero comparison to be made. Those guys couldn't be the shoe shiner for what Andy brings to the floor. Would either Chicago or Denver swap players? Hell yes they would.... without hesitation. Would we? Hell NO.

Noah is a pretty damn good player and he does pretty much the same thing Varejao does just with more minutes and more statistics that show up in the box score.

I wouldn't say the Noah comparison is so far off. That kid is a good player and I'm not so sure the Bulls would trade him for Andy.