Bias In Media

[David.]

Dave, just to point this out for the purpose of the thread; this kind of false equivalence is exactly the problem I'm talking about:

Yes, the alt-right is a White "identitarian" movement, that part of what you said is true. However, it is not a counter or a response to any analogous movement on the left - that's false. That is to say, moral equivalence does not exist between these two positions, and in fact, the ideologies themselves may not even be appropriately comparative.



Because the alt-right has literally risen out of alternative media and stems from the use of "alternative facts." How many times have we seen folks holding up signs that say "CNN is Fake News" with text under that saying "Infowars.com?"

If we were to all agree on mainstream sourcing and objective, rational analysis using something akin to academic study, the concepts presented by much of the "alternative media," or "alternative outlets" that are used by the alt-right would fall apart as many, if not all, are simply untenable.

This is where the reliance on the devaluation of truth and value stem from; and this is why you see this new appearance of pseudo-rationality by would-be pundits on YouTube/Twitter, etc; individuals who cannot actually have two-way conversations, or debates, with people who are prepared to level any amount of real scrutiny against their ideas.

So this is why it's important for alt-right and even now simply right-wing outlets to delegitimize the press; because if there is no objective reality, then there's no objective truth. Thus, your opinion and your perception becomes equally valid as anyone else's, debate becomes pointless, and narrative trumps all (no pun intended).

So you do not believe it is the other side of the coin to leftist identity politics?

Why?

As far as the rest, there are plenty. Plenty. Of people with channels that discuss issues with their opposition.

And if course, most have nothing to do with the alt right.

 

[gourimoko]

So you do not believe it is the other side of the coin to leftist identity politics?

No.

For one, I think that's a loaded question; and secondly, as I said, it's not the other side of the coin to anything.

Why?

There's a few loaded terms here that require a good deal of unpacking.

Can you describe what you mean? Particularly with respect to "identity politics" and "leftists?"

 

[David.]

No.

For one, I think that's a loaded question; and secondly, as I said, it's not the other side of the coin to anything.



There's a few loaded terms here that require a good deal of unpacking.

Can you describe what you mean? Particularly with respect to "identity politics" and "leftists?"

I'm just asking what the distinction is for you.

Because no, they're not exactly equivalent. They're different movements. If they had the same arguments, they'd be the same movement. That doesn't mean they aren't equivalent if they aren't literally the same movement.

Look like they both argue for the interests of their identity to me and for their respective collective. And have pretty unhealthy opinions of other collectives, as is the rule with an in group/outgroup movement.

Do you think they're not equivalent because one doesn't resonate as much with you? They look equivalent to me.

 

[gourimoko]

I'm just asking what the distinction is for you.

I think they're disparate ideologies.

I think the alt-right movement is one based on ethnic nationalism, racism, and sexism. There is no comparative or analogous movement within the liberal movement; and to be quite honest, the "alt-right" doesn't really fit within the conservative movement either; it's squarely outside of what we would consider traditional American conservatism.

Because no, they're not exactly equivalent. They're different movements. If they had the same arguments, they'd be the same movement.

It's not a question of sameness but of dimensionality and comparative philosophies.

Again, there is no nationalist or anti-nationalist movement race-based movement within the modern liberal or progressive movements.

Look like they both argue for the interests of their identity to me and for their respective collective.

That would be where we strongly differ, and I think your opinion here is demonstrably false.

And have pretty unhealthy opinions of other collectives,

I think that's generally false as well.

Do you think they're not equivalent because one doesn't resonate as much with you?

No. I'm speaking logically and objectively.

Remember, conservatism doesn't resonate with me either; and I'm specifically not talking about that.

They look equivalent to me.

And yet, they logically aren't...

Let me put it to you this way.. If we assume that there is an absolute ethical good, then can you demonstrate to me the ethical equivalence, from a logical standpoint, of the egalitarian argument presented within progressivism to that of the ethnic nationalism, White-identity based argument derived from the alt-right?

In other words, can you demonstrate the morality of racism as being ethically equivalent to the morality of egalitarianism?

 

[AZ_]

No, you heard it, you just didn't like it.

No, you've made no case to this point.

I've given you access to 1000 videos. You claimed to have viewed them all and they were all out of context. Do you remember?

I neither claimed to have viewed them all nor have you verified any of these videos here.

Why are they worth my time?

Are any of them from verifiable sources or are they just creatively cut nonsense?

You're now doing a whatabout. Do you really fail to see that you aren't living up to your own standard by demanding I denounce right wing media when the only thing you do is go on about right wing sources and pray to the Holy grail of cnn? This is the third time I've asked. I'll just proceed as though you concede the point if you can't come up with a response.

In my response about videos, I actually made fun of CNNs coverage.

Can I give you some honest criticism?

Absolutely not.

 

[Whittaker]

How many times have we seen folks holding up signs that say "CNN is Fake News" with text under that saying "Infowars.com?"

Alot.
And how long have we been hearing Fox News referred to as "Faux News"?
Faux means fake. Its the original "Fake News" narrative.
So why would you say "it's important for alt-right and even now simply right-wing outlets to delegitimize the press" when the left has been trying to "delegitimize" right-leaning outlets for years.
Doesn't it go both ways?
The right tries to discredit left-leaning news outlets and vice versa.
Why is one side of this front in the culture war more moral?

 

[Kyrie4MVP0202]

I've given 7500 likes to 444 disagrees.

Pretty good compared to your ratio.

But don't let me distract you from trolling the Browns forum or BLM threads.

That's because you kiss ass as much as you troll.

You have the most disagrees given on the entire site.

You also have an inordinate amount of "funny's" than anyone else and that's because you "laugh" at posts you disagree with.

777 of those and all the sudden your inordinate amount of 444 disagrees suddenly somehow gets even bigger.

I have a 27 disagrees total, 5 of them to you.

Congratulations.

 

[Sebastian]

I see you are a moderator.
Do you view all the buttons as non-participation or just the disagree button?
I keep seeing people mark posts as funny but they never explain why they think its funny. Is that non-participation? Trolling?
Should those people move on?

Essentially "Disagree" is seen as a negative rep, though it really isn't. In the past excessive use of Disagree was seen as an attack so most view it not as a person objecting to someone's post but as a personal attack. I'm sure @Phills14 would agree that is the general perception of the button.

So if someone uses it a lot, the perception is very negative as opposed to any other post like Funny or Creative. Whether or not that should be the case I can't say. But virtually anyone that has been around for at least a couple years is going to see a "Disagree" spree as trolling; or any Disagree as a strong negative. Maybe another function should be created for civil disagreements.

Anyway, I was trying to give @Kyrie4MVP0202 a heads up because without a post to clarify his objections to @AZ_ it looked a lot like trolling.

 

[David.]

I think the alt-right movement is one based on ethnic nationalism, racism, and sexism.

blm, feminism. modern prgressive left. equality of outcome. 'white oppression, white privilege, colonialism' etc etc etc etc etc.

check out stormfront vs. sjw on reddit. when you take out the 'other', you cannot tell whether its a stormfront article or something a progressive said.

There is no comparative or analogous movement within the liberal movement; and to be quite honest, the "alt-right" doesn't really fit within the conservative movement either; it's squarely outside of what we would consider traditional American conservatism.

sure, but that doesnt recognize the distinction between the progressive movement/identity politics and alt right

Again, there is no nationalist or anti-nationalist movement race-based movement within the modern liberal or progressive movements.

i argue progressivism is the destruction of the concept of nationalism. its the other side of the same coin. outisde of that, yea, same thing.

That would be where we strongly differ, and I think your opinion here is demonstrably false.

Let me put it to you this way.. If we assume that there is an absolute ethical good, then can you demonstrate to me the ethical equivalence, from a logical standpoint, of the egalitarian argument presented within progressivism to that of the ethnic nationalism, White-identity based argument derived from the alt-right?

false premise. progressivism is absolutely not about egalitarianism.
In other words, can you demonstrate the morality of racism as being ethically equivalent to the morality of egalitarianism?[/QUOTE]

 

[gourimoko]

Alot.

Right, agreed.

And how long have we been hearing Fox News referred to as "Faux News"?

Right, and I think that's actually a pretty fair label considering their history.

Faux means fake. Its the original "Fake News" narrative.

I see what you're trying to do, but "Fake News" in this context really isn't talking about Fox, even though Fox does push false/misleading material.

So why would you say "it's important for alt-right and even now simply right-wing outlets to delegitimize the press" when the left has been trying to "delegitimize" right-leaning outlets for years.

Do you think Fox is just right-leaning? In that, they tell the truth, but simply from a different point of view?

And with that said, I would ask that you please re-evaluate my use of "Fake News" here in that I'm specifically referring to it as a propaganda tool used by "alternative media" outlets.

Doesn't it go both ways?

Not in the way in which you've described.

The right tries to discredit left-leaning news outlets and vice versa.

I think my point is that objective truth is getting lost in this devaluation of journalism...

Why is one side of this front in the culture war more moral?

I don't actually think we're in much of a "culture war," so to speak, but, FWIW, I would argue that simply because sides exist means moral equivalence exists. If the left supposedly is the side for objective reality, and the right is supposedly pushing anti-intellectualism, then I would argue the left, in this hypothetical, is morally superior; wouldn't you?

 

[David.]

No, you've made no case to this point.

i have literally posted instructions on how to find thousands of examples of cnn lying. you ok?

I neither claimed to have viewed them all nor have you verified any of these videos here.

so your claim they were all out of context was stupid? and ironic, seeing as you made that argument about someone posting rick perry as a preemptive rebuttal?

Why are they worth my time?

idk man, you created a topic about media bias right?


Frankly I don't give a shit if you want to look at the mountains of evidence or not. I wasn't writing my post, pages ago, to you. You randomly replied to me, and bitched about it as if this was your birthday party and you were the princess of honor.

isnt it ironic that that you didnt even look to see anything about your precious? and demanded someething about foxnews? which, if you could read, i did the very next post? why are your panties constantly in a bunch stewie?

Are any of them from verifiable sources or are they just creatively cut nonsense?

..theyre literally videos of cnn lying, dumbass. and cutting peoples mic's if they disagree with their narrative. constantly. why dont you watch rather than poison the well of thousands of videos? you see how stupid that is right?

Absolutely not.

ill give it anyways. these are awful arguments. you literally cannot get to 3 periods without committing a fallacy. i genuinely think you are incapable of piecing together any sort of cogent points, as has been pointed out by many other posters. you stomp around your room like stewie griffin and when pressed about really amateur mistakes that you cant help yourself from making, like, demanding everyone else make sure to smear the right if they say anything bad about the left.

you arent very good at this. i suggest you go work on construting some arguments, not here, because look at what youre doing to your own thread. you exclusively bring anyone you engage with down into the mud and nothing of any substance gets communicated. I literally had the conversation youre still complaining about me not having with @King Stannis hours ago, and here you are slap fighting because i didnt post what you wanted me to. this is silly, and brainless. are you taking your "meds"?

 

[David.]

Alot.
And how long have we been hearing Fox News referred to as "Faux News"?
Faux means fake. Its the original "Fake News" narrative.
So why would you say "it's important for alt-right and even now simply right-wing outlets to delegitimize the press" when the left has been trying to "delegitimize" right-leaning outlets for years.
Doesn't it go both ways?
The right tries to discredit left-leaning news outlets and vice versa.
Why is one side of this front in the culture war more moral?

the alt right has nothing to do with the media being delegitimized. its silly its being discussed in this thread.

isnt it sort of obvious if people said 'cnn is fake news' they would then be able to look at cnn, see its being honest, and then the claim that theyre fake news would immediately collapse? yes. and thats not whats happening. cnn is doing it to themselves, theyre obviously not the cleanest game in town, and people see it.

 

[gourimoko]

blm, feminism. modern prgressive left. equality of outcome. 'white oppression, white privilege, colonialism' etc etc etc etc etc.

Honestly Dave, I have no idea what to make of this.. To me, it seems as though, you've just thrown a bunch of words and phrases together...

BLM and Feminism? What about them? What about the "modern progressive left?"

Who is arguing for 'equality of outcome' and where is this notion of "white oppression" coming from?

And who is talking about colonialism? How does that even matter in this context??

You really would need to unpack all of this because it really doesn't mean to me, what it obviously means to you.

check out stormfront vs. sjw on reddit.

???

when you take out the 'other', you cannot tell whether its a stormfront article or something a progressive said.

What?

sure, but that doesnt recognize the distinction between the progressive movement/identity politics and alt right

I'm really at a loss as to what you're trying to say?

i argue progressivism is the destruction of the concept of nationalism.

Progressive has nothing to do with nationalism. One can be a progressive nationalist.

its the other side of the same coin. outisde of that, yea, same thing.

How??

false premise. progressivism is absolutely not about egalitarianism.

This is false.

Progressivism, by definition, entails egalitarianism. Progressivism is based, among other things, on the philosophy that social reforms should be enacted to bring about a more just and egalitarian society.

With that said, can you unpack some of your thoughts here (we're not on the same page, apparently); and let's go from there? Also, can you answer my question with respect to the moral equivalence between racism and egalitarianism (for argument's sake)?

 

[David.]

That's because you kiss ass as much as you troll.

You have the most disagrees given on the entire site.

You also have an inordinate amount of "funny's" than anyone else and that's because you "laugh" at posts you disagree with.

777 of those and all the sudden your inordinate amount of 444 disagrees suddenly somehow gets even bigger.

I have a 27 disagrees total, 5 of them to you.

Congratulations.

if rep was accurate, there are people who would have none. since theyre on a team, their arguments can exclusively be comprised of fallacies and theyll get several, as long as youre on the blue team.

really, dont put any weight in them. they dont make a shit argument good. when you see how awful they are, and that theyre repped, it loses its credibility

 

[Sebastian]

i have literally posted instructions on how to find thousands of examples of cnn lying. you ok?



so your claim they were all out of context was stupid? and ironic, seeing as you made that argument about someone posting rick perry as a preemptive rebuttal?


idk man, you created a topic about media bias right?

isnt it ironic that that you didnt even look to see anything about your precious? and demanded someething about foxnews? which, if you could read, i did the very next post? why are your panties constantly in a bunch stewie?


..theyre literally videos of cnn lying, dumbass. and cutting peoples mic's if they disagree with their narrative. constantly. why dont you watch rather than poison the well of thousands of videos? you see how stupid that is right?



ill give it anyways. these are awful arguments. you literally cannot get to 3 periods without committing a fallacy. i genuinely think you are incapable of piecing together any sort of cogent points, as has been pointed out by many other posters. you stomp around your room like stewie griffin and when pressed about really amateur mistakes that you cant help yourself from making, like, demanding everyone else make sure to smear the right if they say anything bad about the left.

you arent very good at this. i suggest you go work on construting some arguments, not here, because look at what youre doing to your own thread. you exclusively bring anyone you engage with down into the mud and nothing of any substance gets communicated. I literally had the conversation youre still complaining about me not having with @King Stannis hours ago, and here you are slap fighting because i didnt post what you wanted me to. this is silly, and brainless. are you taking your "meds"?

Which debate are you referring to? I don't think I posted anything substantive on this thread outside the "Disagree" stuff.