Bias In Media

[David.]

That's fine, but calling parkland a false flag and suggesting the that there was some other organization behind it be it Soros or someone else was pretty mainstream last week. It backfired and some people got fired so people have been backing away from it. Fact is that the Alt-right has infiltrated the right. People have been trying to distinguish themselves from the Alt-right while still using them to further their agenda. This is lying down with dogs and waking up with fleas I'm afraid.

Im not sure what you mean here.

Do you think it's possible people genuinely believe in "free speech" and aren't dubiously connected to them like others would have you belief? And is it possible that those people were being genuine in defending the principle, counter to what others have led you to believe, and does that make you see the last year any differently?

Id guess you share SOME beliefs with communists.. And you probably don't want to watch millions starved to death. That doesn't mean you won't agree with some of their beliefs. It also doesn't mean that tie goes any further than that.

 

[Cavatt]

Im not sure what you mean here.

Do you think it's possible people genuinely believe in "free speech" and aren't dubiously connected to them like others would have you belief? And is it possible that those people were being genuine in defending the principle, counter to what others have led you to believe, and does that make you see the last year any differently?

I think the conservative movement at the moment is almost completely smoke and mirrors right now. We can talk about different eras and come to more agreement on the fact that George HW Bush and Clinton actually agreed on most things and that their main differences were exaggerated and their difference in point of view was pretty defensible on both sides.

There is a lot of lying going on right now, and Fox News is a straight up propaganda outlet, yet somehow CNN is where all the focus is because it isn't confirming what the right wants to hear.

The right wing in this country right now is not moderately right, it is far right. It has been coopted by libertarians and tea partiers, and their positions on most things are pure fantasy.

You are saying the right and alt-right aren't the same thing, but more inroads have been made on far right alt-right agenda in the past 2 years than in the previous 20.

Contrary to their explicitly stated opinion it has little to do with facts and everything about this Trump era is about feelings. Conservatives have their feelings hurt because they have basically gotten everything they wanted and yet still think the country is being ruined by leftists who have basically had no say in anything legislative since 2012. They don't even realize how much they hate the effects of their own policy.

I don't think people genuinely believe in free speech. Everyone is pissed as hell that these kids whose friends were murdered are being given a platform. Every Trump supporter who hates liberals is getting expose pieces in the NYT and somehow there is a vast liberal left bias in the media.

No one has ever gotten so much lopsided coverage in the media than Donald Trump and somehow he is getting unfairly treated in the media. It's a joke. he got hundred of millions of dollars worth of free advertising.

I saw a kid last night that didn't feel safe on campus because he was a conservative. The big problem was that someone photoshopped his face on a saltine cracker. We are constantly told kids need to toughen up, just not when they stand up to the NRA.

I personally can't see how anyone can take the conservative stance seriously right now. They have expanded government and have blown the hell out of the debt. Yeah Obama ran up the debt because of the financial crises, but as soon as it came under control the GOP gave away 1.5T in tax breaks. Obama's contribution to the debt was unforgivable, but then they immediately made it worse.

So yeah the things they say and the things they do are different, but no one will report that. It would be unfair to the real conservatives who are being unfairly being portrayed as racists just because of their racist rhetoric and policies.

Who is the reasonable conservative on the scene right now?

 

[gourimoko]

The alt right is not the right

It absolutely is...

They might not be conservatives, but they are most certainly right-wingers.

 

[TyGuy]

That's fine, but calling parkland a false flag and suggesting the that there was some other organization behind it be it Soros or someone else was pretty mainstream last week. It backfired and some people got fired so people have been backing away from it. Fact is that the Alt-right has infiltrated the right. People have been trying to distinguish themselves from the Alt-right while still using them to further their agenda. This is lying down with dogs and waking up with fleas I'm afraid.

The Ctrl left has infiltrated the left.

 

[gourimoko]

The Ctrl left has infiltrated the left.

What does that actually mean, if anything?

 

[TyGuy]

What does that actually mean, if anything?

What does alt-right mean?

 

[Huber.]

The Ctrl left has infiltrated the left.

It's the Shift Libertarians I don't trust. Trying to get people to shift their thinking into unpractical views.

 

[Sebastian]

What does that actually mean, if anything?

It means Leftists who want to destroy free-speech and ban conservative thought in the name of social justice.

And it hasn’t infiltrated the “Left,” because the same fringe elements have been there since the 60s. They are loud but have no meaningful role in the actual Democratic Party, unlike their counter-parts (Alt-Right or New Right).

 

[David.]

It means Leftists who want to destroy free-speech and ban conservative thought in the name of social justice.

And it hasn’t infiltrated the “Left,” because the same fringe elements have been there since the 60s. They are loud but have no meaningful role in the actual Democratic Party, unlike their counter-parts (Alt-Right or New Right).

I don't think that just because they don't have effect on policy, it means they are irrelevant, considering their impact on society which is pervasive and ubiquitous. I don't think "they have no meaningful role" is accurate at all, and since they large align with the left, it's hard to say they don't have a meaningful role in the democratic party

NO ONE denounces them. Hell people are pretending it doesn't exist literally right now.

In any event, is this gonna move over to politics?

 

[Cavatt]

It means Leftists who want to destroy free-speech and ban conservative thought in the name of social justice.

And it hasn’t infiltrated the “Left,” because the same fringe elements have been there since the 60s. They are loud but have no meaningful role in the actual Democratic Party, unlike their counter-parts (Alt-Right or New Right).

This is correct. Once We start hearing elected leaders using these talking points as Trump and many others in congress on the right are doing, in addition to major media like CNN and MSNBC then we will have an equivalency to talk about.

On the left most of us are worried our elected officials are too right. Many elected democrats are to the right of Reagan right now.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I don't think that just because they don't have effect on policy, it means they are irrelevant, considering their impact on society which is pervasive and ubiquitous. I don't think "they have no meaningful role" is accurate at all, and since they large align with the left, it's hard to say they don't have a meaningful role in the democratic party

In any event, is this gonna move over to politics?

Well, I'll start a media bias thread. Got an idea what do lead off with....

 

[TyGuy]

It means Leftists who want to destroy free-speech and ban conservative thought in the name of social justice.

And it hasn’t infiltrated the “Left,” because the same fringe elements have been there since the 60s. They are loud but have no meaningful role in the actual Democratic Party, unlike their counter-parts (Alt-Right or New Right).

You actually believe they aren't meaningful to the democratic party, but the alt-right is influential to the republican party?

 

[gourimoko]

What does alt-right mean?

Alright, I'll bite..

Alt-right is the Alternative Right; a post-modern, right-wing reactionary and neoreactionary movement that puts forward right-wing populist, nativist, traditionalist, and race-oriented ('race-realist') solutions to what are perceived to be contemporary problems facing society. Much of the tactics, imagery, ideals, symbolism and language of the Alt-Right is fascistic in nature.

The Alt-Right is most certainly "right-wing" on the political spectrum for the aforementioned reasons. I think some might be confusing populism and leftism as being entailed when they most certainly are not.

Right-wing Populist Nationalism and reactionary thinking has been on the rise throughout the world as a reactionary response to rapidly changing socioeconomic conditions, cultural shifts towards leftism and progressivism ideologies, globalism, coupled with recent bouts of worldwide economic austerity and recession. Brexit, Trump, Modi; we nearly saw the election of Marine Le Pen, or the political troubles facing Angela Merkel in Germany.

In fact, Germany is useful here as a measure of the geopolitical landscape given it has undergone all of the aforementioned conditions and we've seen the move of the Christian Democrats from the center-right towards the Social Democrats of the left to form a center-left, globalist, and pro-EU coalition of sorts; and then contrast that with the recent rise of the AfD, the far-right right-wing German party.

But, you don't need to take my word on events or the etymology of the term and politics surrounding the new right-wing movements worldwide. Instead, just getting back to the simplest of definitions, here is the term Alt-Right as defined by Wikipedia:

The alt-right, or alternative right, is a loosely-connected and somewhat ill-defined[1] grouping of white supremacists, neo-Confederates, neo-Nazis, neo-fascists, and other far-right[2][3][4] fringe hate groups.[5][6] Alt-right beliefs have been described as isolationist, protectionist, antisemitic and white supremacist,[7][8][9] frequently overlapping with Neo-Nazism,[10][11][12][13]nativism and Islamophobia,[14][15][16][17][18]antifeminism, misogyny and homophobia,[10][19][20][21][13]right-wing populism[22][23] and the neoreactionary movement.[7][24] The concept has further been associated with several groups such as American nationalists and neo-monarchists, men's rights advocates and the 2016 presidential campaign of Donald Trump.[14][23][24][25][26]

...

Here is the term right-wing, again as defined by Wikipedia:

Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal or desirable,[1][2][3] typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4] 693, 721[5][6][7][8][9][page needed] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences[10][11] or the competition in market economies.[12][13] The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system".[14]

And the part that's confusing some folks obviously is the term right-wing populism, again, Wikipedia:

Right-wing populism is a political ideology which combines right-wing politics and populist rhetoric and themes. The rhetoric often consists of anti-elitist sentiments, opposition to the system and speaking for the "common people". In Europe, right-wing populism is an expression used to describe groups, politicians and political parties generally known for their opposition to immigration,[1] mostly from the Islamic world[2] and in most cases Euroscepticism.[3] Right-wing populism in the Western world is generally—though not exclusively—associated with ideologies such as new nationalism,[4][5] anti-globalization,[6] nativism,[7][8] protectionism[9] and opposition to immigration.[10] Traditional right-wingviews such as opposition to an increasing support for the welfare state and a "more lavish, but also more restrictive, domestic social spending" scheme is also described under right-wing populism and is sometimes called "welfare chauvinism".[11][12][13]

From the 1990s, right-wing populist parties became established in the legislatures of various democracies, including Australia, Canada, France, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Estonia, Romania, Brazil and Chile; and they entered coalition governments in Switzerland, Austria, Finland, Greece, Slovakia, Lithuania, Latvia, the Netherlands, Italy[14] and Israel; and majority governments in India, Turkey, Hungary and Poland. Although extreme right-wing movements in the United States have been studied separately, where they are normally called "radical right" (and in particular the alt-right), some writers consider them to be a part of the same phenomenon.[15] Right-wing populism in the United States is also closely linked to paleoconservatism.[16] Right-wing populism is distinct from conservatism, but several right-wing populist parties have their roots in conservative political parties.[17] Other populist parties have links to fascistmovements founded during the interwar period when Italian, German, Hungarian, Spanish and Japanese fascism rose to power.

Since the Great Recession,[18][19][20] right-wing populist movements such as the National Front in France, the Northern League in Italy, the Party for Freedom in the Netherlands and the UK Independence Party began to grow in popularity,[21][22] in large part because of increasing opposition to immigration from the Middle East and Africa, rising Euroscepticism and discontent with the economic policies of the European Union.[23] U.S. President Donald Trump's 2016 political views have been summarized by pundits as right wing populist[24] and nationalist.[25][26]

 

[gourimoko]

It means Leftists who want to destroy free-speech and ban conservative thought in the name of social justice.

And it hasn’t infiltrated the “Left,” because the same fringe elements have been there since the 60s. They are loud but have no meaningful role in the actual Democratic Party, unlike their counter-parts (Alt-Right or New Right).

Gotcha.. yeah, Ctrl-Left is not a term I have ever heard used.. I've heard "Alt-Left," but that was always used to mean anything necessary to deflect criticism from the Alt-Right or in an attempt to draw false equivalence.

 

[Sebastian]

You actually believe they aren't meaningful to the democratic party, but the alt-right is influential to the republican party?

I don't see an Antifa leader sitting on the National Security Council, or dictating immigration policy, so no.

They are, on occasion, useful idiots, but having a real seat the table? No.

But, yes, this is turning into a political debate so... TO THE BATCAVE!