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Brendan Haywood's Trade Exception

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mhi said:
So what assets can we attach to this potential TPE in order to land a decent player ?

We had to throw in 2 first rounders for Moz; without assets are we just looking at potential salary dump players ? Basically the same pool of candidates we just struck out of this summer ?
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lots of guys eventually

houston got brewer for tpe and 2nd rounder
 
I don't know if this was already brought up. Sorry if it's bullshit because I don't really understand about cap and stuff... but god damn I just had some sort of insight on this.

X factor regarding the TPE: It counts against the cap; but it doesn't count against the luxury tax.

We all know that Gilbert will already pay a historic amount due to luxury tax if the whole team is resigned and Haywood is simply waived.

But if you use Haywood's contract - on a trade or by a TPE which will be used on a sign and trade - you are talking about extra tens of millions going out of Gilbert's pockets, considering he's already paying a lot of extra money.

So it looks to me that Haywood's contract, via direct trade or TPE, probably won't be used to simply improve the team with another player, but as a contigency plan - a new player to replace another in case of an emergency, possibilities being:

- Before season starts: TT / JR / Delly doesn't resign (via direct trade or TPE - sign and trade);
- Midseason: player gets injured (via TPE)
- Next season: Mozgov demands a max and is let go (via TPE next year).

So what it means is that chances of trading Haywood were slow from the beginning. It may still happen only if one of those 3 guys won't sign and a replacement is needed.

If everybody resigns, TPE is acquired. But still for insurance reasons.

So even a future midseason trade via TPE has a low chance to happen, because it means lots of millions of dollars less for Gilbert when he's already handing a bunch out.

So my point is: maybe chances of using Haywood's contract to improve the team are slim, due to massive financial cost. His contract is more an insurance in case something goes seriously wrong (player not renewing/injury).

But for example, if JR goes apeshit and refuses to resign for 7M range, or wants a too long contract - they could simply let him go, get the TPE, get Martin from Minesotta.

Haywood's contract is important, but don't get your hopes too high that it will necessarily be used to simply improve the team if everybody is back. Don't know if Griffin guaranteed it would be used in this way.
 
mhi said:
So what assets can we attach to this potential TPE in order to land a decent player ?

We had to throw in 2 first rounders for Moz; without assets are we just looking at potential salary dump players ? Basically the same pool of candidates we just struck out of this summer ?
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there will be a lot more players available in February. right now 80-90% of the teams think they have a shot to make the playoffs (or at least most of them are trying to win, with the Sixers being the exception). at the trade deadline it will be pretty clear that a lot of those won't make it and that's when they're ready to dump their vets to go for a high pick.
i remember a Flip Saunders interview from a weeks ago in which he mentioned how they came to the conclusion that they had no shot to make the playoffs and decided to go in a different direction in February, that's when they started to dump their veterans (Mo Williams, Brewer...). there just aren't a lot of solid players available (as salary dumps) when teams like the Wolves think they could be pretty good (like i said that'll change quickly).
 
Never forget.


It's going to be tough to see such a vital piece and fan favorite move on... But it's all for the greater good.

Seriously though, it seems like some of the guys really did get along with him and he played a pretty decent 'Mike Miller' role on the bench. Don't remember him complaining about playing time (but making that much money for rooting guys on, who would?). Recall a lot of times Kyrie was soaking up all that veteran knowledge (likely including, jump shooting tips).

Let's see how this void is filled. Leaves a hole in the team and a hole in our hearts.
 
Scrote Squad said:
Eh, I think it's exactly that simple. We can trade for a player now using the contract or trade for a player in a few months using the TPE. And I'm not advocating that we pass up a home run deal and take our chances at the deadline. I'm advocating that we don't move our most valuable asset in the summer if we're confident it can be better used later on.
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I agree. There's no way to know right now what the Cavs' most pressing need will be at the deadline.

Let's say that in early February, Varejao is out for the season (not much of a surprise there), and so is Mozgov because of some freak injury. If the Cavs don't have a TPE to get another big man, they're screwed -- it's unlikely that they'll be able to trade for the player they want and get the salaries to match. The TPE gives them that flexibility. Lest we forget, it's the way they were able to acquire Mozgov last January.

An incremental gain in talent today is not worth the huge loss in flexibility (not to mention that there's no reason to take on the giant tax hit of another salary unless it becomes necessary).
 
AllforOne said:
I agree. There's no way to know right now what the Cavs' most pressing need will be at the deadline.

Let's say that in early February, Varejao is out for the season (not much of a surprise there), and so is Mozgov because of some freak injury. If the Cavs don't have a TPE to get another big man, they're screwed -- it's unlikely that they'll be able to trade for the player they want and get the salaries to match. The TPE gives them that flexibility. Lest we forget, it's the way they were able to acquire Mozgov last January.

An incremental gain in talent today is not worth the huge loss in flexibility (not to mention that there's no reason to take on the giant tax hit of another salary unless it becomes necessary).
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Agree. And right now most of the NBA teams want to sell the idea that they will be competitive for a playoff spot and sell tickets. By early 2016 many of those teams will be hopelessly out of it and will have expensive players they want to dump, if only for the reason that you can let someone else pay them $5 million for the second half of the year.
 
I'm going to miss my friends asking me "who's that guy?"
 
cavsfever said:
What does it mean to 'set it up'? We shouldn't need to throw in a second round pick in order to get another team to give us a TPE. (Although the second rounder would be helpful in letting us actually use the TPE later).
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I think you answered your own question.

We now have (2) second round picks (with the one we grabbed from Minnesota on draft night).

Potentially one to send out to create the TPE and then one to send out if we need to use it.
 
cavsfever said:
What does it mean to 'set it up'? We shouldn't need to throw in a second round pick in order to get another team to give us a TPE. (Although the second rounder would be helpful in letting us actually use the TPE later).
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why should other teams help us out for free? while it doesn't cost them anything to take on and waiving Haywood, they are helping us get the biggest TPE in the entire league in the process and they should (and will) get something for it.
 
*L-Train* said:
why should other teams help us out for free? while it doesn't cost them anything to take on and waiving Haywood, they are helping us get the biggest TPE in the entire league in the process and they should (and will) get something for it.
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Yeah the myth that we are getting it for free needs to end. 1 to 2 second rounders is the asking price since only Phily and Portland have the space. It won't be free or just cash considerations.
 
ajz20 said:
Yeah the myth that we are getting it for free needs to end. 1 to 2 second rounders is the asking price since only Phily and Portland have the space. It won't be free or just cash considerations.
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The good news is that there are two teams to trade with, so hopefully we don't get totally held over a barrel. Portland just jumping into their rebuild might be happy to settle for one pick for the cost of doing some paperwork. Hinkie has been able to screw people because he's usually the only one with space.
 
*L-Train* said:
why should other teams help us out for free? while it doesn't cost them anything to take on and waiving Haywood, they are helping us get the biggest TPE in the entire league in the process and they should (and will) get something for it.
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I'd like to bargain them down to cash considerations but I dunno. A few million dollars for free.
 
cavsfever said:
What does it mean to 'set it up'? We shouldn't need to throw in a second round pick in order to get another team to give us a TPE. (Although the second rounder would be helpful in letting us actually use the TPE later).
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Why?

If I'm Philly I tell the Cavs to give me a pick or forget it. And because the Cavs have very few options out there to use as leverage, who has the stronger position? If no deal happens Philly loses out on a couple million dollars in cash. Meanwhile, the Cavs lose their last decent trade chip to improve the team. They're in the stronger position.
 
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