Carmelo Anthony

[czvo]

Unfortunately, perception is reality, and the perception is that Carmelo is a loser. Of course, that ignores the fact that Carmelo has never been on a team with a losing record his entire time in the NBA, and he's made the playoffs every year. Digging deeper, just once in his entire career has his team lost in the playoffs to a team with fewer regular season wins (last year vs. the Pacers). You can point out how his FG % declines in the postseason compared to the regular season, but then you'd be ignoring the fact that opposing teams are gearing up to stop him (and he takes more shots). You could argue he doesn't pass enough, and there's some merit to that, but isn't that what we (the general public) want? LeBron can't get blasted for making the right basketball play late in the game and passing to the open man if Carmelo is going to get blasted for taking that shot when it's contested. Melo's the #1 option. It's his job to take that shot.

We seem to have this belief ingrained in us that if you don't win a championship, you are nothing. It happens to all the big names that can't get over the hump during their playing careers, and it appears to be happening to Melo right now.

As far as the deferring talk... who's he supposed to defer to? He's never been on team where he's had to defer, so how would we know how he'd respond. The only time that's ever happened is the Olympics, and he had no problems deferring then. Some may call that a special case, but the point is he's never not been THE guy in the NBA. Let's hold off on the judgments before (if) we see evidence.

 

[Ohio]

Shot attempts. 22 per game. TWENTY TWO. That is more than LeBron and Durant. And he doesn't have the efficiency to back up those attempts.

Tonight it took Melo 22 shots (made 8) to get 22 points. That's horrid, yet typical for him. Tim Hardaway JR had 23 points on 15 shots.

"Willing" passers don't average 3 assists per game. Calling CarmeLo a willing passer...is just bad. Like really, really bad.

Plays no defense. Isolates his team offensively.

And the "teammates" excuse is bullshit. He had a damn good squad for him in Denver. Chauncey, JR, Melo, Martin, Nene, Birdman, with Karl as coach was a very good squad. That roster was a shitload better than the 2007 Cavs. Melo couldn't get it done. Unfortunately for them, Chauncey and Martin got old, and Birdman did too much coke.

Before the Knicks acquired Melo/while Melo was injured, Amare looked like the superstar he was in his Phoenix days. And the Knicks were playing great TEAM basketball. Then Melo came along and fucked it all up.

Also, as silly as Linsanity was, let's not forget how that started and ended: Knicks started off the season like shit, and Melo got hurt. Then Lin came on and won games and the Knicks went on a crazy winning streak. Melo comes back from injury, and they suck again.

Melo ruins players. It is for these reasons that he will never win an NBA championship as the face of the team. He honestly should have just stayed in Denver. They had a good regime there and a good system for him. His best chance of winning as "the man" was in Denver, he'll never come as close as he did with that Nuggets team.

What Melo SHOULD do (if he cares at all about winning -- which btw is another issue with him, his priorities are awful) is join the Lakers, play Robin to Kobe's batman, and win games. But I seriously doubt Melo is willing to do that. It's too bad because he would absolutely thrive in a lesser role than the one he's faced in his entire career. He'd take less shots and his efficiency would go up because he'd be taking good shots. He'd also be forced to play defense by Kobe. He would KILL it in a role similar to what Wade has taken with LeBron. He's not a #1 option on a Championship team.

 

[Stark]

-67.4%

 

[godfather]

Why does everyone keep leaving out Iverson? I know he doesn't come with the greatest reputation, but he DID take a team, a bad one, to the NBA finals. 'Melo has ever played with great players is reaching though... He played with one great in Iverson, but played with PLENTY of good players throughout his career. Absurd, Keynon Martin signed for that big contract, when he was still relatively healthy and was an all-star player in 'Melo's second season. That was a huge move at the time, and help jump start that team in the right direction.

Andre Miller came to the Nuggets 'Melo's rookie season, Marcus Camby was added to the team. They surrounded 'Melo with GOOD quality players when he was drafted, so stop acting like 'Melo just flipped the switch and they became good all of a sudden. Either you must do your research, or remember the circumstances that players, quality ones, were added to the team when they drafted 'Melo.

We surrounded LB with a bunch of shit early in his career, where the Nuggets were smart and savvy enough to go out and get some smart, and talented vets to put along side him.

He's always been on GOOD teams, I won't say great, but very good. This year the Knicks are shit, I don't blame that on him. 'Melo is not a bad player, never said that. But he definitely lacks leadership qualities, the ability to make others better, and hell, just the ability to co-exist with players at times.

His reputation as being a "me-first" guy isn't labeled on him because everyone is out to just pick on him.

 

[Ohio]

I don't think people are mentioning Iverson because he and Melo are both equally to blame for them not working out.

 

[czvo]

Melo's three years in Denver with Billups:

08-09: 54 wins, WCF, lost to a better Lakers team (eventual champs)
09-10: 53 wins, lost a tough 4-5 series to the Utah Jazz
10-11: Billups traded


The Knicks's great "team basketball" was ruined by Melo? The Knicks record after the Melo trade (excluding the season finale he didn't play in): 14-13. Prior to Melo: 28-26. And it's not like the Knicks were on some sort of hot streak. They were 6-12 in the 18 games immediately preceding Melo's first with the club. I think the idea that Melo came in and made Amare ineffective ignores his underlying health issues which were starting to rear their ugly head late in that season. Remember, Amare averaged 24-7 on 50% shooting in the month following the trade, roughly his averages for that season. He sprained his ankle in April, then dealt with back spasms in the playoffs.

As for Jeremy Lin, I loved that story. It was great. No-name point guard comes out of nowhere and leads the Knicks on a long winning streak. In that 7-game winning streak, the combined record of the opponents NY faced was 190-272. The only two playoff teams were the Lakers and Jazz. If we want to stretch to include Dallas (even though they lost to NO in between), I'll give you that since Melo was out for that one too. Combined record is now 226-302. (Looking at it, the first game at NJ may have to be thrown out since Melo played in that one... so 6-game winning streak.)

In games that Lin played major minutes and Melo missed (or was limited, as he was against Utah, playing just 6 minutes), the Knicks were 6-1. With Melo and without Lin, they were 20-17 (Melo missed a few games, which are not included, but games in which Lin played sparingly are). When they both played major minutes, they were 8-9. 6 of those 9 losses were against playoff teams.

What Melo SHOULD do (if he cares at all about winning -- which btw is another issue with him, his priorities are awful) is join the Lakers, play Robin to Kobe's batman, and win games. But I seriously doubt Melo is willing to do that.

Which is a good thing, if he's smart. That Kobe is dead and gone. Kobe's 35 and coming off a fractured knee which he suffered RIGHT after returning from a TORN ACHILLES. There can't be people out there that think Kobe is still Kobe. He's not. He's not going to be anyone's batman... if that team expects to win games, anyway. Hell, I'd question his ability to be robin at this point. Maybe Alfred... maybe.

 

[godfather]

I don't think people are mentioning Iverson because he and Melo are both equally to blame for them not working out.

That's probably true, but 'Melo never in a million years was willing to share the thunder with him and make it work. People question LB and Wade co-existing because they shared similar tendencies, but they made it work because they're just better than 'Melo, more adapt, and willing to evolve. He refuses to.

 

[Cashius X]

Shot attempts. 22 per game. TWENTY TWO. That is more than LeBron and Durant. And he doesn't have the efficiency to back up those attempts.

Tonight it took Melo 22 shots (made 8) to get 22 points. That's horrid, yet typical for him. Tim Hardaway JR had 23 points on 15 shots.

"Willing" passers don't average 3 assists per game. Calling CarmeLo a willing passer...is just bad. Like really, really bad.

Plays no defense. Isolates his team offensively.

And the "teammates" excuse is bullshit. He had a damn good squad for him in Denver. Chauncey, JR, Melo, Martin, Nene, Birdman, with Karl as coach was a very good squad. That roster was a shitload better than the 2007 Cavs. Melo couldn't get it done. Unfortunately for them, Chauncey and Martin got old, and Birdman did too much coke.

Before the Knicks acquired Melo/while Melo was injured, Amare looked like the superstar he was in his Phoenix days. And the Knicks were playing great TEAM basketball. Then Melo came along and fucked it all up.

Also, as silly as Linsanity was, let's not forget how that started and ended: Knicks started off the season like shit, and Melo got hurt. Then Lin came on and won games and the Knicks went on a crazy winning streak. Melo comes back from injury, and they suck again.

Melo ruins players. It is for these reasons that he will never win an NBA championship as the face of the team. He honestly should have just stayed in Denver. They had a good regime there and a good system for him. His best chance of winning as "the man" was in Denver, he'll never come as close as he did with that Nuggets team.

What Melo SHOULD do (if he cares at all about winning -- which btw is another issue with him, his priorities are awful) is join the Lakers, play Robin to Kobe's batman, and win games. But I seriously doubt Melo is willing to do that. It's too bad because he would absolutely thrive in a lesser role than the one he's faced in his entire career. He'd take less shots and his efficiency would go up because he'd be taking good shots. He'd also be forced to play defense by Kobe. He would KILL it in a role similar to what Wade has taken with LeBron. He's not a #1 option on a Championship team.

You're just talking. Most of what you just typed was complete bullshit and the rest was your biased opinion.

Melo's 8/22 night yesterday was far from typical from him as evidenced by his 45% FG%. So the fuck what he takes 22 shot attempts per game? If he's making 45% of his attempts and averaging 27 ppg then all is well. You'd actually want him shooting more with those types of results.

Moreover, Melo didn't fuck up the Knicks once he got there. He elevated that team and franchise. He brought them back to relevancy. Melo's NY teams have achieved winning records since he got there. He brought that team out of the gutter and put them back on the basketball map. Yeah, Amare looked like a superstar before Melo got there by routinely dropping 30 points but they still weren't winning many games. I don't see how you could argue that Melo "fucked up" the Knicks when he's the sole reason that franchise got back into the playoffs and actually won a series in a long time.

And how are his priorities awful? Because he desired to go to a bigger city and market? He's always cared about winning. He went to NY to win, not just to make money.

Lastly, your points are moot because you predicate your argument on the misguided fact that Melo is an inefficient chucker. You're correct in that he's a chucker. He takes a lot of shots. But I don't see a problem with that so long as he's efficient, which he is. 45% is great for a SF. Don't be deceived by LeBron and KD and think that if you're not shooting over 50% from the field that you're inefficient. Melo is a superstar. Every GM in the league knows this.

And what is so bad about Melo's assist numbers? 3 apg as a SF isn't bad at all. Paul George averages 3.4 apg yet I bet you wouldn't hesitate in calling him a willing passer. Moreover, Paul George also shoots a lower FG% than Melo while averaging less points but I bet you wouldn't call him a chucker.

Melo has a bad reputation for some weird reason. Keep on unfairly criticizing him though. Only crime he's committed is not being as good as KD or LeBron. It's like people use this fact to say he's an underachiever or overrated. Crazy

 

[CardiacCavs]

Melo was one of my favorite players when he was on Denver (I even have a melo-nuggets jersey). After he forced the trade to NY it kind of soured for me. Denver won that trade, which softened the blow. I think NY's failures have less to do with Melo, than it does with trading all of their existing talent to get him and investing huge bucks in injury risks like Chandler and Amare. Melo is playing like one of the best in the league, but his team still sucks because all of the other players suck. Pretty simple to me.

 

[Triumph36]

Has to be one of the most polarizing NBA players on this forums. Either you love him or you hate, but for some reason most people on RCF feel as though he impedes team success (as crazy as that sounds).

He's a Top 10 player in the NBA easily. The 3rd/4th best SF in the league. Idk if it's cool or the "in" thing to hate on Melo but for whatever reason he has a terrible rep.

Post the problems you have with Melo. I'm genuinely interested to hear peoples' problems with him. I feel most people are just misinformed and formed opinions of Melo based on what they've heard others say. Maybe I can shed some light on why he's rightfully regarded as one of the premier talents and franchise players in the league.

 

[Ohio]

You're just talking. Most of what you just typed was complete bullshit and the rest was your biased opinion.

I could, and would, say the same about you.

Melo's 8/22 night yesterday was far from typical from him as evidenced by his 45% FG%. So the fuck what he takes 22 shot attempts per game? If he's making 45% of his attempts and averaging 27 ppg then all is well. You'd actually want him shooting more with those types of results.

Dude.........no

Moreover, Melo didn't fuck up the Knicks once he got there. He elevated that team and franchise. He brought them back to relevancy. Melo's NY teams have achieved winning records since he got there. He brought that team out of the gutter and put them back on the basketball map. Yeah, Amare looked like a superstar before Melo got there by routinely dropping 30 points but they still weren't winning many games. I don't see how you could argue that Melo "fucked up" the Knicks when he's the sole reason that franchise got back into the playoffs and actually won a series in a long time.

The Knicks have been no better with Melo. You can look at the 1 playoff series they won against a washed up Celtics team, but nobody cares. Their record with Melo vs without him is about the same, and that's just sad.

And how are his priorities awful? Because he desired to go to a bigger city and market? He's always cared about winning. He went to NY to win, not just to make money.

His situation in Denver was better. He left that for the bigger spotlight. That's on him and him only. To say he's always cared about winning is ignorant. If he stays in New York we will all know he doesn't care about winning.

Lastly, your points are moot because you predicate your argument on the misguided fact that Melo is an inefficient chucker. You're correct in that he's a chucker. He takes a lot of shots. But I don't see a problem with that so long as he's efficient, which he is. 45% is great for a SF. Don't be deceived by LeBron and KD and think that if you're not shooting over 50% from the field that you're inefficient. Melo is a superstar. Every GM in the league knows this.

And what is so bad about Melo's assist numbers? 3 apg as a SF isn't bad at all. Paul George averages 3.4 apg yet I bet you wouldn't hesitate in calling him a willing passer. Moreover, Paul George also shoots a lower FG% than Melo while averaging less points but I bet you wouldn't call him a chucker.

Melo has a bad reputation for some weird reason. Keep on unfairly criticizing him though. Only crime he's committed is not being as good as KD or LeBron. It's like people use this fact to say he's an underachiever or overrated. Crazy

45% is not bad. But 22 shots is very bad. Making your offense a black hole is very bad. Paul George doesn't do those things, Averaging about as many turnovers as assists is very bad.

To be fair, Melo is having a nice season. 41% from three is damn impressive. The Knicks just really fucking suck. And while Melo's play style doesn't do them any favors, them sucking THIS year really is not his fault. When I criticize Melo, I'm criticizing him over his career; not just this season.

Melo would be the best "sidekick" in the NBA, IMO. If he was willing to let Kyrie run the show here (he wouldn't) I would be ecstatic about acquiring him. Melo spotting up and getting wide open looks from Kyrie penetration would just about be a dream come true. If Melo cared about winning, he'd try to get himself into that kind of situation. But asking him to run the team, to be a playmaker, has just not worked out thus far in his career.

 

[godfather]

You're just talking. Most of what you just typed was complete bullshit and the rest was your biased opinion.

Well isn't this topic mostly subjective anyway? :chuckles: I don't get why you had to get so nasty with him. I thought you open this thread up for friendly debate?

If you wanted us all to sing-along, and just say 'Melo is so great, then just join a fan club.

 

[Cassity14]

Melo puts up great stats. He's never going to win anything until he changes his game to fit into a team sport. His single mentality out on the court is to be better than his opponent. Great mentality for a singles tennis player. For a great player in a team sport? Not so much.

He is probably the second most talented scorer in the NBA today behind Durant. He can score from anywhere on the court. He can score 1v1 in an efficient manner against the vast majority of the league. When he wants to be, he's a decent man to man defender and a good rebounder.

His problem is that it's all about him all the time. If he gets the ball, he's more than likely shooting it. Extra pass? Ha! There's no pass to be made unless he's doubled.

"But he's so efficient in isolations, it doesn't matter!"

It's not about the effect these situations have on him. It's about the effect they have on the team. Basketball is a rhythm game. When the team has a rhythm, it's undoubtedly better than when it doesn't. Hell, we've witnessed the good and bad of this philosophy here in Cleveland over the years.

Let's look at even this season, for example. The Cavs have won 5 straight games and it hasn't been on the back of Kyrie Irving scoring 35 points per game. It's been on the back of chemistry, rhythm, and team ball on both ends of the court.

A lot of us really despise Kyrie's tendency to try to 'take over' too many games down the stretch; I personally refer to it as hero ball. The biggest reason why? It doesn't make his teammates better, but rather makes them worse.

Carmelo Anthony plays 48 minutes of this hero ball to the point that his teammates are perpetually out of rhythm for long stretches of time. You can't consistently win like that. LeBron's learned that, Kobe's learned that, Durant is learning that. Carmelo has yet to learn that.

The dude's talent and skills are off the charts. He could be a champion in the right context. Denver wasn't that context. New York, as currently constructed, isn't that context. Today's Cavaliers are not that context.

Put Melo with a point guard and coach who can keep him in check and he can shine. Get him participating fully in a system that gets him quick posts and catch/shoot opportunities and he'll amaze. I just don't see that happening here right now because Kyrie isn't mature enough to put a leash on Melo and I haven't seen Mike put in an offense to cater to that.

If Melo went to the Clippers to play with CP3 under Doc, that'd be quite good. If Melo and Rondo found a way to team up, you'd see the dividends. New York has tried to acquire Rondo but they simply don't have the assets.

TLDR; Melo doesn't currently play a style conducive to sustained team success and in order to do that, he needs the right culture. It's not here.

 

[Cashius X]

Well isn't this topic mostly subjective anyway? :chuckles: I don't get why you had to get so nasty with him. I thought you open this thread up for friendly debate?

If you wanted us all to sing-along, and just say 'Melo is so great, then just join a fan club.

I don't mean to come across as being a dick. My fault, I hope people don't take what I say too serious. I'm just trying to make/prove a point.

 

[godfather]

I don't mean to come across as being a dick. My fault, I hope people don't take what I say too serious. I'm just trying to make/prove a point.

Nah, no problem. I'm all for some nice debating on here. It doesn't have to be too buddy-buddy, where we all sit here and agree with everything. That to me gets pretty boring. :chuckles: