Triumph36
All-Star
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2008
- Messages
- 9,554
- Reaction score
- 5,742
- Points
- 113
kind of responding out of order but oh well. first, he didn't carry the knicks to the playoffs himself, you know who was a massive factor? tyson chandler. why? a little thing called defense, same reason why he played such a big role in the mavs title run. but we'll move on and look to his efficiency once he got to the playoffs last season - 50% TS 43% eFG%. now if that isn't a "chucking team saboteur" i don't know what is. and before you deflect blame onto his teammates, please see how efficient lebron was in the playoffs with bad teammates. hell, look at harden's playoffs from last season - he had a bunch of role players and chandler parsons, not exactly a lineup of stars.Goodness, why? That's bordering on sadistic (having said that, I'm totally with you on Felton though :chuckles.
This Carmelo thing is just weird. As I've said before the large segment of Carmelo detractors is largely a product of it being in vogue to unfairly criticize him.
Part of why I'm bewildered about the passion behind it though:
Paul George - 44% from the field, 38% from three (on 6.2 attempts per), and 86% from the line. Though he's a two way player in the purest sense of the phrase which is why his reputation is as great as it is, he's hardly ever berated for his offense (and he shouldn't be).
James Harden - 45% from the field, 34% from three (on 6.3 attempts per), and 86% from the line. He is one of the worst perimeter defenders in the league, but he's fashionable to praise (though the honeymoon period for him is slowing down).
Kevin Love - 46% from the field, 38% from three (on 6.3 attempts per), and 83% from the line. He does a lot of other great things on the court (ALL THE REBOUNDS), but he's a truly terrible defensive player and he's never even come close to the playoffs, but he also has a pristine reputation with fans.
Carmelo Anthony - 45% from the field, 43% from three (on 5.3 attempts per), and 84% from the line. He's never missed the playoffs, is a perfectly average defender (now), carried the sorry ass Knicks of last season to the second best record in the East, is an improved passer, and a very solid rebounder. But he's a chucking team saboteur. It really doesn't make sense. Is he older than those guys? Yes. Can you justifiably prefer any of them over Carmelo? Sure. But the difference of opinion on those guys versus Carmelo held by many is almost irrational.
further, why do you put so little value in the absolutely massive difference in age? just casually mentioning it, then subsequently brushing it off? melo turns 30 soon. love? 26 in september. george? 24 in may. harden? 25 in august. in the real world that isn't a huge gap, but in the basketball world? that is ENORMOUS. if love isn't any better in 2 or 3 years, do you think maybe then the criticism will start to ramp up? i'd bet that is the case. similarly, if melo were in his mid 20s would the criticism be as harsh as it is now? doubtful. but the fact that he is way past veteran status and almost on the wrong side of 30....his lack of improvement and true dedication to winning in many areas is going to raise a few eyebrows. even though the difference in age goes a long, long way to justify the differing levels of criticism, i might as well also address each individual player.
paul george - yep, you nailed it. two-way player. more specifically, a top ~3 two-way player. that is hugely valuable. had he been pedestrian defensively like melo, do you think people would be so quick to elevate him into elite, top-5 status? probably not. but being elite defensively, along with efficient but not elite offensive numbers will put him right up there among the best. his shot selection is also better than melo's, though he certainly does need work there.
james harden - 60.9 TS% and 52 eFG%. but since you'll probably point to his teammates as justification for the extremely efficient numbers, we'll use his 2012-2013 numbers instead. 60 TS%, 50.4 eFG%. melo? 56.2% and 50.5% respectively. that is a massive difference. wonder why? because harden is a much smarter player. take a look at their shotcharts. harden used 80% (!!!!!) from the most valuable areas on the court - 3s and at the rim. melo? 52%. you'd think a guy with almost a decade of nba experience would know a little about shot selection but....
james harden is also a much better and smarter distributor, last year averaging 5.2 assists leading to shots at rim and 3s per 40 min. what about melo? 2.5. so not only does he take the overwhelming majority of his shots from the best places on the court, he also gets his teammates a lot of shots in those areas too. making teammates better is valuable.
kevin love - 59.6 TS% and 52.8 eFG% again compared to 56.2% and 50.5% for melo respectively. again, shot charts. love? 72.3% from 3 and at the rim vs melo's stellar 52%. melo does have an edge defensively but love's rebounding prowess easily outweighs that.
tl,dr: all 3 of those players you listed are significantly younger. 1 of them is an elite two-way player in a league where they are few and far between. the remaining 2 are superbly efficient offensive players with excellent shot selection.
i place extremely high value on defense and smart shot selection (read: efficiency). those 3 are all far better than melo in at least one of those aspects while being FAR FAR FAR younger. they are realizing this shit at a young age. melo still doesn't get it. so personally, i have no qualms bashing melo far more than those 3 listed because they flat out just play much smarter, team basketball.
