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Cavs summer league team

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artimusprime said:
Sure but the value of what you owe is way less. A tenth pick in the NBA is worth way more than 2 2nd rounders. The probability of hitting on those picks is just so much lower. Even with the g league. Moreover with traditional debt the longer you keep it around the more you owe. That’s just not true I’m this scenario.
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Yes, the two second rounders do not have the same value,

The key here is more the 2020 pick. They have to tank for two years and not just one. Everything I've seen indicates the 2020 class is much better than 2019.

Do you really want to create a team culture where the goal is to be pretty bad for at least two years? What happens if the team isn't as bad as you hope? Do you bench Sexton if he pans out to prevent wins?

You aim to win as many games as possible. You don't want to create a losing culture. So you aim for the postseason. You have no way of guaranteeing a terrible season for two straight years without severely gutting the roster, especially if guys like Sexton and Cedi really pan out.

If 2020 is deeper then the easiest way to guarantee a pick then is to pay off Atlanta now. Yes, those second rounders aren't worth as much, but if 2020 is deeper then that it your interest.

Then there's also diminished fan support. Gilbert just spent a ton of money, but fans won't reward him if the team is terrible.

Cost certainty is why you win now. Then you can make plans because you're guaranteed your future draft picks.

And they can get picks in other ways.
 
I totally agree. We should definitely win as many games as we can and then tank in 2020 because that draft is better!!!!

That sounds like a fucking disaster.
 
jhollandsworth said:
The pick is top 10 protected but the pick doesn't have that much value to us outside of the top 10 anyway. The right move is to be in the top 10. Even if we get our pick back, being in the lower-middle/middle of the draft isn't where we need to be as a franchise.
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Yeah, I used to think like that too.

I think you are better off having smart people and good scouts in place and pick the best player available at whatever spot you land in the draft while also putting out the best version of yourself year in and year out.

I get that you don't want to "be the Hornets" which is fine, but I'd argue the Hornets made their bed by drafting poorly (or at least mediocre-ly) at every spot they landed.

I'd prefer to be the Pacers, who consistently pick solid players, even franchise players up and down the board. Their biggest miss is probably picking Leonard and then dealing him for Hill, or maybe picking Tyler Hansbrough at 13.

Yeah, if by mid-season it ain't working, trade vets who aren't part of the future and try to get some draft assets, but nobody who starts "the process" seems to finish it. (the GM, coach, etc. almost always lose the job before seeing those young players develop enough to help)
 
Mr. MacPhisto said:
Yes, the two second rounders do not have the same value,

The key here is more the 2020 pick. They have to tank for two years and not just one. Everything I've seen indicates the 2020 class is much better than 2019.

Do you really want to create a team culture where the goal is to be pretty bad for at least two years? What happens if the team isn't as bad as you hope? Do you bench Sexton if he pans out to prevent wins?

You aim to win as many games as possible. You don't want to create a losing culture. So you aim for the postseason. You have no way of guaranteeing a terrible season for two straight years without severely gutting the roster, especially if guys like Sexton and Cedi really pan out.

If 2020 is deeper then the easiest way to guarantee a pick then is to pay off Atlanta now. Yes, those second rounders aren't worth as much, but if 2020 is deeper then that it your interest.

Then there's also diminished fan support. Gilbert just spent a ton of money, but fans won't reward him if the team is terrible.

Cost certainty is why you win now. Then you can make plans because you're guaranteed your future draft picks.

And they can get picks in other ways.
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I agree, we can get picks in other ways.

And I have come full circle and do not think tanking is the way to go to secure one pick which you may or may not hit on.

The goal is find ways to make your team better now.
The goal is not to lose. The goal now is to develop young talent and a tough attitude

The key is simply to play the youth as much as possible. Move the vets throughout the year when opportunities come along that make the team better....either young promising talent or picks.

By the trade deadline, Love, Hill, Korver and JR are gone this team will have no depth and you have a natural tank
 
stowfan said:
I think Gilbert has the money to pay the contracts for a few more years if we're stuck with them.
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For sure. I'm not fussed at all if we just let their contracts play out. Try and get youth and assets if we can and teams are looking for expirings. Their contracts were horrible but not that bad for us now, we aren't in the business of spending money at the moment and that's a good thing, prevents us from signing biyombo, hill, Noah, mozgov, jarret jack type contracts which just hamstring rebuilding teams.
 
I say we compete our asses off to build a winning culture. We need to showcase Love for the first half of the season then flip him for a draft pick and starter who can still contribute to a playoff run. Then use Hill & JR's expiring to take on bad contracts at a price of either a young player or draft consideration.

I think we may have found our future all-star in Sexton. There's no need to tank for high draft picks that have no guarantee of ever becoming a star player. Just take on some salary that will expire in a couple years along with Tristan's contract. Then you have a clear deck to make a run at star level FA's who have seen your team steadily improve the last 2-years.

Having one young star player in Kyrie was reportedly enough to lure Gordon Hayward, who was set to come here before Bron decided to come back. Not only that but Koby mentioned Kyrie had successfully recruited several other impact FA's that summer.

Let's just be patient and see how good or bad this team can become. Sure if Sexton, Cedi, Zizic, and Hood all shit the bed - Clarkson remains Clarkson, Love gets hurt, and Korver falls off a cliff, then we can always shift gears into full tank mode the second half of the season.
 
Mavaliersfan said:
I say we compete our asses off to build a winning culture. We need to showcase Love for the first half of the season then flip him for a draft pick and starter who can still contribute to a playoff run. Then use Hill & JR's expiring to take on bad contracts at a price of either a young player or draft consideration.

I think we may have found our future all-star in Sexton. There's no need to tank for high draft picks that have no guarantee of ever becoming a star player. Just take on some salary that will expire in a couple years along with Tristan's contract. Then you have a clear deck to make a run at star level FA's who have seen your team steadily improve the last 2-years.

Having one young star player in Kyrie was reportedly enough to lure Gordon Hayward, who was set to come here before Bron decided to come back. Not only that but Koby mentioned Kyrie had successfully recruited several other impact FA's that summer.

Let's just be patient and see how good or bad this team can become. Sure if Sexton, Cedi, Zizic, and Hood all shit the bed - Clarkson remains Clarkson, Love gets hurt, and Korver falls off a cliff, then we can always shift gears into full tank mode the second half of the season.
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I do not see the core four of nance, sexton, cedi and zizic shitting the bed. I think they will be fine but they certainly will not competing for a title.

Let them compete, let them try to win. As we shed the vets the loss of depth alone will get us that pick back IMO

But if by some mini miracle we are actually really good last year, more than expected and are a playoff contender you cant pull the rug out from under them for that one pick

I am pretty excited about the four. Not because of summer league( except for sexton) but cedi and zizic performed well when they played last year and nance is a proven rotational player

I consider Preston our "pick" for next year. A year with stable coaching and playing in Canton will do wonders for him
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
Zhaire and Oladipo are not similar at all as players. Zhaire while an explosive and effortless leaper, just doesn't have an elite first step or top end speed. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. He is not an explosive athlete other than being an elite leaper. His strides are very small, which limits him.

Mikal has a much higher chance than Miles to be out of the league. He is 23 and is rail thin and the only think he does well is shoot the ball. Isn't quick or explosive coming off screens either, so he doesn't get himself very open much. He doesn't rebound, he can't create, and he will not be a good switch defender unless he bulks up in the lower body. It looks to me he has a much higher chance to be a bench warmer than Miles.

Miles can not be a total bust just because he does a lot of other things on the court. He already looks very comfortable shooting off the dribble, he attacks mismatches in the post quickly, he is strong, he crashes the boards, he is strong enough to body front court players @ switch...he does a lot more things than Mikal.

Dunno how good Miles is going to be really, but i'm not really confident in Mikal at all.
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I think the speed of Zhaire's first step is limited by his ballhandling ability right now...without the ball, he seems as quick as anyone. But we may have to agree to disagree on this one.

3&D for Mikal...yeah, he's skinny, but only a handful of 2's and 3's are actually physical enough to take advantage of that. And while his frame will prevent him from being the ideal glue-guy defender, his length and above-average defensive IQ will probably ensure that he's at least respectable.

With Miles, he relies on that dribble jump shot so much that he needs it to be accurate to stick in the league. If it's not, then he's either going to be a sub-40% shooter from the floor, or he'll get relegated to a much smaller offensive role where he's mainly an energy guy.
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
What I get from all this talk is that we fucked up the protection on the pick.
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In hindsight should've insisted on it being lottery protected instead of just top 10. Of course the Cavs had LeBron and were coming off a championship when they made that Korver deal..who would've guessed we'd be back in this position at this point? David Griffin was also the GM when they made the deal and we all know how that man loved to spend draft picks like a drunken sailor.

With that said next year's draft class outside the top 4 prospects or so looks a bit shallow at this point. They do have some time between now and the deadline to make a choice on the direction of the team. If it's not going well in Dec/Jan they still have time to tear it down and tank hard to keep the pick.

If I were them I'd talk to ATL, offer to take Bazemore's contract for an expiring and see if the protection can be changed from top 10 to lottery protected. There may be other picks available too such as the Pels Korver/Ajinca deal or god forbid taking on Deng from the Lakers for an expiring/player/pick.

Off topic but I'd also try to move Tristan. Maybe the Wiz would take him for Mahinmi? Their contracts are the same length and it would allow the Cavs to really start over without the remnant of Klutch clients on the roster.
 
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