Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position

[The Wizard of Moz]

There's been a statman sighting in the Indians section

The Phoenix has rose from the ashes

 

[Lee]

There's been a statman sighting in the Indians section

The Phoenix has rose from the ashes

If we put statman and midwestcav in a room together, does only one come out alive?

Who is it?

Is this a good idea?

If yes, does someone want to take book for this event?

 

[NorthCoastBias]

100% chance he doesn’t last here until draft day

 

[Sebastian]

If we put statman and midwestcav in a room together, does only one come out alive?

Who is it?

Is this a good idea?

If yes, does someone want to take book for this event?

Midwestcav seems a lot younger. Plus he lives in Wyoming, so he is undoubtedly a rugged outdoorsman.

My money is on him.

 

[Sebastian]

There's been a statman sighting in the Indians section

The Phoenix has rose from the ashes

 

[Triple-S]

Precisely my worry with Allen. The floor is literally out of the league in a few years. And I think it's fair to say that is more likely than him reaching this "Best QB in the NFL" ceiling that many are citing for him.

Again if this is 3 years from now and I'm reading how "Josh Allen is looking like an MVP candidate for the Patriots"?

I wouldn't be shocked reading that. but that's just it. That's the situation he needs to be put in.

Because no matter who we have on staff. Be it Haley (who I think is a good hire), The personal group that is in place now...whatever. You are...until proven otherwise with some sort of consistent playoff apperances/success a very dysfunctional football team.

The Browns need to find the closest thing to a "Desert Island" guy. Meaning if the whole season is tanked, The HC is tossing his ass out there to play QB to save his job and he's playing with guys who should be in Arena Football? It won't "ruin" him for life.

You cannot get a 'fixer upper".

 

[Norm]

One last thing.....

Only sensible thing I can think of regarding Allen going in the 1st round? Teams want that 5th year option on a rookie payscale with the way QB contracts are going

 

[Chris]

Again if this is 3 years from now and I'm reading how "Josh Allen is looking like an MVP candidate for the Patriots"?

I wouldn't be shocked reading that. but that's just it. That's the situation he needs to be put in.

Because no matter who we have on staff. Be it Haley (who I think is a good hire), The personal group that is in place now...whatever. You are...until proven otherwise with some sort of consistent playoff apperances/success a very dysfunctional football team.

The Browns need to find the closest thing to a "Desert Island" guy. Meaning if the whole season is tanked, The HC is tossing his ass out there to play QB to save his job and he's playing with guys who should be in Arena Football? It won't "ruin" him for life.

You cannot get a 'fixer upper".

Yeah, or the Steelers. I could see him having success if he goes somewhere like that. But it's far from guaranteed.

 

[Sebastian]

Rosen to the Patriots would be so typical.

Another decade of dominance.

 

[mds]

If the Cavs trade Nance and draft a non-Allen, will this dude leave us alone?

 

[Los216]

Back from lunch boys. I can't believe we are worried about if someone puts down Midwest as where he is from. I am a history major, I think I know where Wyoming is. That is pretty weak to have to pick at that, but if I have to bring my IQ down a few notches to fit in I guess I can do that.
So let's' get back to what this is originally about. In my opinion I think Allen brings a lot to the table. He has more than a strong arm. He can run the ball when the pocket breaks down or receivers are covered. He has great escapability, a small sample of that is in the Senior Bowl. He is a winner, I am sure I will get flack for that. But if you see Wyoming as a team that wins very little much like the Browns, back to back 8 win seasons is good. He ran a run first offense that wouldn't even pass if they had a choice. So when he usually got to pass it is because it was 2nd or 3rd down and long. It has been pointed out by quite a few that he grows as a qb each week. He started from the bowl game, went and got better each day at the Senior Bowl . He preformed very well at the combine, that coming from several sources. And then at his Pro day he preformed very well again. I was not impressed by his receivers but they had been working out with him and Darnold out in California. He could only use one receiver from Wyoming as no senior receivers to throw to except his fullback. Allen has preformed well at all of the private workouts from the people reporting it. Which isn't many. One of the things the talking heads bring up is that Allen has kept growing whenever he gets better coaching. That is a big plus, which means he is no where close to his ceiling. Teams notice those type of things. He is also a quality person who would love to step in and play in Cleveland. He plays pretty damn good in foul weather, another plus. His teammates look to him to lead them, and he usually comes through for them. When Wyoming would play P5 teams he tried to do too much because no one else was able to step up. Wyoming has not been able to build up their depth enough to even begin to stay with P5 teams.

The Jets were the team who came to Laramie to scout him the most. The Jets asked the most questions about Allen and the Jets press reported the most about Allen early in the process. Elway personally scouted Allen and Darnold at their respective bowl games. The Broncos had them both in for private workouts. As you all know Dorsey and the owner met with Allen and his parents at Pro day and the same goes for Darnold.

I personally don't feel Allen is ready to step in like Darnold and Rosen. He needs to sit out and gain some experience. Playing at Wyoming he is not as ready as they are to cope with so much so early. I don't feel it would be in the best interest in Cleveland or the staffs to draft Allen at this point. The fan base has waited too long to get in this position to take the qb that is the most ready to play now. And I admit Allen needs to go to a team that didn't have so many question marks. I would understand if they saw what Allen could be, but I feel that a different qb is the safe play. The circumstances seem to dictate that. But I am not going to say I think Allen wouldn't be the correct pick if Tyrod could be that bridge qb they are hophopng he would be. Then the Browns could pick whoever they want. But there are no guarantees that Tyrod can pull it off, so the Browns need to go the safe route. I don't feel any of the quarterbacks are a sure thing, but Darnold feels the safest. I think the big 4 can all bring something special to the NFL as quarterbacks, or all the draft people wouldn't be touting them so much. Falk and Rudolph would be in the discussions more if that was the case. Anyway, I hope the Browns get who they want and I hope you guys can stay positive about the other quarterbacks . The reason for that is you don't know who the Browns are going to pick. I would like to see all of the qb's taken in the first two rounds do well. College qb's are not like they used to be coming in, most of them have been getting prepared for the NFL for years. Cleveland will do well to get any of the big 4.

 

[Spectre]

This is still primarily a Cavaliers fan website, and the Anthony Bennett pick at #1 overall is still just too recent for me personally. I remember talking up so many players that year. This board was really high on Steven Adams and The Greek Freak, and many of us said something like, "yeah, I dunno if we can take him #1 overall. He's a high ceiling, low floor prospect.". So what did Chris Grant do? He took a low ceiling player who ended up having the floor of being out of the NBA in his prime years. Ooooooh, it still stings!

Now the NBA and the NFL have plenty of differences in how you go about drafting a team. One thing is sure though... if it feels like a gut punch right after the commissioner announces the pick, your instincts are usually correct.

It's easy to see other high ceiling/low floor guys bust and make comps to those guys because it's a scary to think of wasting that pick. That's why the Jamarcus Russell/Ryan Leaf/Jake Locker comparisons come out for Josh Allen even though I think they're not fair at all because those guys aren't made of the same stuff.

Bennett didn't bust because he had a low floor, he busted because he was lazy and didn't have any fight in him. Griff said it himself. “The issue with Anthony was, and we had no way of knowing it at the time, the kid had no desire to overcome adversity whatsoever. As soon as it was hard, he was out,” Griffin told Lloyd. “His whole life, he rolled out of bed bigger, better, and more talented than everybody else. As soon as it was hard, it was over.”

That's not Josh Allen. He got no scholarship offers coming out of HS. He spammed coaches with e-mails asking for a look and got nothing. Didn't give up, went to JUCO, bulked up and kept sending e-mails. Over a thousand of them. Finally got one offer to Wyoming and took the starting job by Week 2 as a freshman. Busted his collarbone that same game. He came back, continued to work in the weight room, and put himself in consideration at the top of the draft. He hurt his shoulder at the end of this year and instead of sitting out the bowl game, fought to get healthy and play because he believed he "owed" it to his coaches for believing in him when no one else did.

That's why I don't think that Josh Allen is as scary as everyone says he is. Yeah, there's a chance that the reason why he's struggled at times is because he's one of those guys that it just doesn't click for and he busts. I don't think so but it's possible. But based on what he's done and the character he's showed, he's going to bust his ass and fight tooth and nail to get better and make it work. You can't say that about every boom/bust guy but you can say that about Josh Allen.

That goes a long way in determining whether a guy makes it to his ceiling.

 

[sportscoach]

It's easy to see other high ceiling/low floor guys bust and make comps to those guys because it's a scary to think of wasting that pick. That's why the Jamarcus Russell/Ryan Leaf/Jake Locker comparisons come out for Josh Allen even though I think they're not fair at all because those guys aren't made of the same stuff.

Bennett didn't bust because he had a low floor, he busted because he was lazy and didn't have any fight in him. Griff said it himself. “The issue with Anthony was, and we had no way of knowing it at the time, the kid had no desire to overcome adversity whatsoever. As soon as it was hard, he was out,” Griffin told Lloyd. “His whole life, he rolled out of bed bigger, better, and more talented than everybody else. As soon as it was hard, it was over.”

That's not Josh Allen. He got no scholarship offers coming out of HS. He spammed coaches with e-mails asking for a look and got nothing. Didn't give up, went to JUCO, bulked up and kept sending e-mails. Over a thousand of them. Finally got one offer to Wyoming and took the starting job by Week 2 as a freshman. Busted his collarbone that same game. He came back, continued to work in the weight room, and put himself in consideration at the top of the draft. He hurt his shoulder at the end of this year and instead of sitting out the bowl game, fought to get healthy and play because he believed he "owed" it to his coaches for believing in him when no one else did.

That's why I don't think that Josh Allen is as scary as everyone says he is. Yeah, there's a chance that the reason why he's struggled at times is because he's one of those guys that it just doesn't click for and he busts. I don't think so but it's possible. But based on what he's done and the character he's showed, he's going to bust his ass and fight tooth and nail to get better and make it work. You can't say that about every boom/bust guy but you can say that about Josh Allen.

That goes a long way in determining whether a guy makes it to his ceiling.

I do understand why people don’t want to take Allen, but his mental makeup and his drive are intangibles that cannot be overlooked with him. He needs to work on arm talent, but with the right coaching and support he will get to his ceiling since he wants it and will work as hard as possible to get there.

Not sure if I would normally take him at one but in a QB driven league, he’s gonna go way higher than he should. To me he is a late 1st early 2nd round grade cause of the flaws he does have but with a bunch of teams wanting a QB he will definitely be early day one. Hopefully if we do draft him the coaching and a guy like Stanton can help him reach his potential that a few of us on this board see in him.

 

[Akron330]

I kinda get tired of the “mental makeup” and “drive” arguments for Allen. Darnold is a much better prospect, does he not have the same work ethic as Allen? I don’t care how hard you work or the intangibles that you have, sometimes you simply aren’t good enough. I honestly don’t understand why he’s even in the discussion when guys like Darnold and Rosen are sitting there. He’s not worthy of a number one pick, he hasn’t done enough at ANY level to warrant it.

 

[AZ_]

It's easy to see other high ceiling/low floor guys bust and make comps to those guys because it's a scary to think of wasting that pick. That's why the Jamarcus Russell/Ryan Leaf/Jake Locker comparisons come out for Josh Allen even though I think they're not fair at all because those guys aren't made of the same stuff.

Bennett didn't bust because he had a low floor, he busted because he was lazy and didn't have any fight in him. Griff said it himself. “The issue with Anthony was, and we had no way of knowing it at the time, the kid had no desire to overcome adversity whatsoever. As soon as it was hard, he was out,” Griffin told Lloyd. “His whole life, he rolled out of bed bigger, better, and more talented than everybody else. As soon as it was hard, it was over.”

That's not Josh Allen. He got no scholarship offers coming out of HS. He spammed coaches with e-mails asking for a look and got nothing. Didn't give up, went to JUCO, bulked up and kept sending e-mails. Over a thousand of them. Finally got one offer to Wyoming and took the starting job by Week 2 as a freshman. Busted his collarbone that same game. He came back, continued to work in the weight room, and put himself in consideration at the top of the draft. He hurt his shoulder at the end of this year and instead of sitting out the bowl game, fought to get healthy and play because he believed he "owed" it to his coaches for believing in him when no one else did.

That's why I don't think that Josh Allen is as scary as everyone says he is. Yeah, there's a chance that the reason why he's struggled at times is because he's one of those guys that it just doesn't click for and he busts. I don't think so but it's possible. But based on what he's done and the character he's showed, he's going to bust his ass and fight tooth and nail to get better and make it work. You can't say that about every boom/bust guy but you can say that about Josh Allen.

That goes a long way in determining whether a guy makes it to his ceiling.

I’d like someone to explain to me why Josh Rosen’s shoulder injury is a cause for concern.

Yet his comeback showed no such character and the ability to “fight tooth and nail to get better and make it work.”

Narratives aren’t what should be interesting, but I just think it’s kind of funny what people will convince themselves of.

All that “pushed himself in the weight room” Hollywood stuff seems like you’re trying to convince yourself more than anyone else.

I understand talking yourself into a prospect because of his background or what not, but at the end of the day you look at the monumental task of improvement needed and have to wonder what the realistic ceiling actually is.