Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position

[Spectre]

I'd like to know why Rosen's shoulder injuries are an issue but Josh Allen's severe and multiple injuries are just a thing of the past. Allen even has a damn metal plate holding his shoulder together.

That's a big misconception. I looked into this a bit when Rodgers had it done last year because I have him in dynasty.

The metal plate on Allen's collarbone (not shoulder) was solely there to make sure it aligned and healed properly, not to hold it together permanently. Right now, the hardware is likely serving no purpose other than there not being a reason to take it out if it's not bothering him. If it healed properly (and it seems like it has) then the chance of break is the same as it was pre-injury. His shoulder injury was a mild AC joint sprain that healed on its own.

The part that scared me initially about Rosen's injury was that initially reported that he suffered nerve damage (which is a big deal). The team now denies it and I'd believe them given that he came back from it but I'd definitely want that checked out in medical. The other shoulder stuff I'm not as worried about because he's played well since and it should be healed. Honestly, the shoulder isn't that big of a deal to me.

To me, the concussions are a much bigger issue. People with concussion issues are more likely to have them going forward. Rosen has plenty of interests outside of football, wealth to fall back on, and he's spoken out on injury risk vs. long term future before. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he walked away from the game if they become an issue. There's nothing wrong with that way of thinking honestly, it makes a lot of sense. But it would scare me a bit if I were drafting him. If he were Luke Kuechly, he'd likely have retired already. And I don't want to jinx it after he got dinged last year, but I think Myles Garrett is the same way. It's not enough to get you to not draft a guy because of it but it's just another piece to the puzzle.

 

[Midwestcav]

What makes people say Allen has a great work ethic, anyway? Yes, he got bigger, and gained weight, but his completion percentage and accuracy has stayed pretty much the same since high school. Isn’t getting *better* at something a sign of work ethic? Where has Allen improver to merit such praise?

Why can't you grasp the concept that there are variables to a quarterback succeeding? Look at the situation with Goff. If Fischer had remained coach, Goff would be out of the league in less than three years. Allen went through the same thing at Wyoming. Why can't you allow that possibility to happen? Allen keeps improving and is showing he can change his speeds since getting coached up at the Senior Bowl. Did you watch the Senior Bowl? He threw touch passes for completions and touchdowns. So what else are you going to try and put on him? Haters are going to hate. If he won a Super Bowl in his 2nd year I bet half on this board would find ways to discredit him. Get Allen in the right system and he will be a good qb. I actually saw him play 19 times in person counting two bowl games and one in Fort Collins. If you saw the lack of talent and his OC calling plays you would give him some credit. He did try and throw too hard. He is correcting that. He is proving he can do it. So do you still hold Favre's college completion percentaur against him?

 

[Seiklis]

Why can't you grasp the concept that there are variables to a quarterback succeeding? Look at the situation with Goff. If Fischer had remained coach, Goff would be out of the league in less than three years. Allen went through the same thing at Wyoming. Why can't you allow that possibility to happen? Allen keeps improving and is showing he can change his speeds since getting coached up at the Senior Bowl. Did you watch the Senior Bowl? He threw touch passes for completions and touchdowns. So what else are you going to try and put on him? Haters are going to hate. If he won a Super Bowl in his 2nd year I bet half on this board would find ways to discredit him. Get Allen in the right system and he will be a good qb. I actually saw him play 19 times in person counting two bowl games and one in Fort Collins. If you saw the lack of talent and his OC calling plays you would give him some credit. He did try and throw too hard. He is correcting that. He is proving he can do it. So do you still hold Favre's college completion percentaur against him?

Cause it happened in high school and Junior College too

Sorry man...he's just not a good QB

 

[Midwestcav]

I believe that our take on Allen is similar, good tools to work with but he's a project, even to the right team?

I actually enjoy watching QBs throw at the combine. The throws are all the same for each qb and basic nfl routes and drops (step-wise). I like seeing who can lead a receiver in stride where the receivers don't have to make any adjustments to make the catch. I, like many browns fans, have seen too many qbs get our wrs injured because of bad placement. The other aspect I enjoy most, which I already touched on, is seeing the QB prospects throw to many different receivers and adjust their throws with how quickly they can process the receivers all running differently (speed, breaks in the route). I thought Allen did okay, but his placement is bad. Going to get some receivers laid out in the nfl. Allen needs to trust his receivers more and his arm strength less. I feel he is skittish (?) about trusting his receivers and tends to not know when to use touch. Brady is the best at trusting his receivers (more like the play). He throws to the anticipated spot where he expects and trusts his receivers to be there. Power 5 QB by the way.

I think what gets lost the most in the draft is projecting the drive, the will to become great at the next level. Us fans who try to figure out what prospect we want are at a disadvantage as we don't spend one on one time with these guys to see where their heads and hearts are in the process. I wasn't high on wentz 2 years ago, thought he was a late 1st/early 2nd round qb. He had good/great intangibles (accuracy, placement, arm strength), I personally thought the nfl stage would be too big for him early. He actually went to the perfect spot in Philly once they got a coordinator and hc, who in combination, designed the offense for him to succeed. Not sure he would have had the same thing happen here in Cleveland. The jury is still out on Wentz, but it's looking like he's going to be mvp a few times in his career.

On a personal level, my take, I think most are razzing you because you initially started bragging up Allen like the 2nd coming because you have seen him a lot more than most of us during his live games and not a recording. Paints a picture of you being biased towards him. Making interaction with you seem one-sided. Just my opinion, as I have been in similar situations with my affinity towards Michigan players.


Edit: also, since we have been a terribly ran team since 99, most browns fans have become quite adapt (not always) at scouting prospects. The draft has been our super bowl for far too long lol

I watched the board a lot before I signed up, and after I posted when I first signed up. I got tired of AZ thinking he knew it all and bashed Allen without any real reasoning behind it. He is an Internet bully and basically the only one I have zero respect for. Most others on here use logic at least part of the time. I am sorry to come on so strong , but that happens when a gang comes at you. Which AZ was praying for. We have his type on our boards and I have no problem taking it to them. A guy has to use more than feelings when discussing quarterbacks. If it is an opinion, state it as an opinion. If you think it is a fact, be able to back it up. But people on here just say he has a big arm, nothing else. I highly doubt a big arm and nothing else gets you into the talk of being picked #1. There are more factors. I was trying to add what most don't know or want to admit about him on here.

Did I go about it in the right way, absolutely not. Did the people who went after me handle it correctly? Absolutely not. While you think Allen didn't do well at the combine, there are way many more that say he was hands down the best. So ya gotta take it for what it's worth. And just so you know, Allen didn't get receivers hurt at Wyoming. You guys have an unfair bias against him. For one we rarely threw across the middle because our OC had terrible pass routes. If Allen could have thrown across the middle his percentage takes a huge leap. It was mostly down and outs, passes out of the backfield, and short corner routes. They didn't use his arm right. So I am hopeful he goes to a team that can get the most out of him because he is the complete package. His improvement in throwing the ball away from last year to this year was huge. It cost him percentage wise, but it helped with turnovers and sacks. The growih and maturity between his two years starting was huge, which people who haven't watched him would never know. I blame his OC/ quarterback coach for most of his downside.

If Allen would have played for Oklahoma and got to face those week assed defenses he could have torn them up just like Baker. I do love Baker's leadership after watching all of the Senior Bowl practices. He is a strong leader. I worry about his throws over the middle because of his heigth. It affected him a few times in the Senior Bowl.

 

[FiveThous]

I watched the board a lot before I signed up, and after I posted when I first signed up. I got tired of AZ thinking he knew it all and bashed Allen without any real reasoning behind it. He is an Internet bully and basically the only one I have zero respect for. Most others on here use logic at least part of the time. I am sorry to come on so strong , but that happens when a gang comes at you. Which AZ was praying for. We have his type on our boards and I have no problem taking it to them. A guy has to use more than feelings when discussing quarterbacks. If it is an opinion, state it as an opinion. If you think it is a fact, be able to back it up. But people on here just say he has a big arm, nothing else. I highly doubt a big arm and nothing else gets you into the talk of being picked #1. There are more factors. I was trying to add what most don't know or want to admit about him on here.

Did I go about it in the right way, absolutely not. Did the people who went after me handle it correctly? Absolutely not. While you think Allen didn't do well at the combine, there are way many more that say he was hands down the best. So ya gotta take it for what it's worth. And just so you know, Allen didn't get receivers hurt at Wyoming. You guys have an unfair bias against him. For one we rarely threw across the middle because our OC had terrible pass routes. If Allen could have thrown across the middle his percentage takes a huge leap. It was mostly down and outs, passes out of the backfield, and short corner routes. They didn't use his arm right. So I am hopeful he goes to a team that can get the most out of him because he is the complete package. His improvement in throwing the ball away from last year to this year was huge. It cost him percentage wise, but it helped with turnovers and sacks. The growih and maturity between his two years starting was huge, which people who haven't watched him would never know. I blame his OC/ quarterback coach for most of his downside.

If Allen would have played for Oklahoma and got to face those week assed defenses he could have torn them up just like Baker. I do love Baker's leadership after watching all of the Senior Bowl practices. He is a strong leader. I worry about his throws over the middle because of his heigth. It affected him a few times in the Senior Bowl.

When I think of dominant defenses vs the pass, the MWC is certainly the first conference that comes to mind.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I don't agree with this philosophy. People like Bird, Magic and Jordan still worked hard even though they were at the top of the pile. Bird and Magic pushed each other every year. They talk about it all the time. So no, I don't buy your theory or opinion. I was good at ball, but there is always room for improvement. As soon as someone thinks there isn't is when they start regressing.

I was going to respond to this substantively, but to be blunt, I think you're legitimately too stupid to umderstand the point.

 

[Midwestcav]

When I think of dominant defenses vs the pass, the MWC is certainly the first conference that comes to mind.

Listen to most anyone that talks about Big 12 defenses, they say are almost non existent. Just reporting what they say. The old WAC used to be like that. No one played defense, just worried about scoring. Once one of the Big 12 members gets serious about defense and starts winning championships, then they will all fall into line. I have seen it happen with other conferences. For not being P5 schools and having all the talent , MWC teams actually play decent defense. Boise State and now SDSU are beating P5 schools , and the league is starting to even up.

 

[Midwestcav]

I was going to respond to this substantively, but to be blunt, I think you're legitimately too stupid to umderstand the point.

I tried being nice but a douche will remain a douche.

 

[Midwestcav]

Cause it happened in high school and Junior College too

Sorry man...he's just not a good QB

And that is your opinion. I am cool with it.

 

[Sebastian]

Vad händer här?

 

[Midwestcav]

Not to be an ass, but AZ did this to me before. No matter what my post said, he would hit the disagree button. To me that is just about as lame and weak as a poster can get. It is like how a girl would react on Facebook. Almost laughable. But then I start getting petty when it happens, and start doing it to other posters who put the big X on my posts. I have suprisingly been getting a lot of likes on my posts, which tells me that guys who like Allen but don't want to receive a backlash over it can at least let me know I am not in the wrong in most of my thinking. Isn't it great to be anonymou' and do your dirty work behind a computer? I am more of the kind of person who would rather drive to your house and either take a beat down or give one. But this petty crap of following a guy around and putting an X besides every post is prissy at best. Feminine for sure, chickenshit ,definitely.

Changing the subject, who can give me the down low down on Hue Jackson. Why are they keeping him around if he sucks and they have made so many changes? If I am going to root for the Browns I might as well know the good and the bad. I like Hayley, but it sounds like Rothlesburger wanted more control over calling plays. Do I have that right? Thanks in advance. I was a big fan of the Brian Sipe's era. The Kardiac Kids if I recall correctly. Great times. I love underdogs.

 

[Norm]

While you think Allen didn't do well at the combine, there are way many more that say he was hands down the best. So ya gotta take it for what it's worth. And just so you know, Allen didn't get receivers hurt at Wyoming. You guys have an unfair bias against him. .

I never said that he got his receivers hurt....in college. I do however think that his placement will get receivers injured at the next level. Especially if he plays sooner, rather than later.

While a lot of people were enamored with his combine performance, nothing stood out besides the long bomb that made everyone go "ooooohhh". Again, it's just my opinion and even the experts are wrong as I have been and totally expect to be again at some point.

I don't hold any bias towards Allen as a prospect. My only bias is because of where we are currently picking, #1 & #4. I don't like him at those spots for us because we need impact players immediately. And whatever QB we pick? I believe will be starting the following season, not someone that we can let sit for a few years before he is actually ready. I will have a bias towards Allen if he has an unattractive gf. That alone is a deal breaker for me even if he goes undrafted.

 

[Norm]

I was going to respond to this substantively, but to be blunt, I think you're legitimately too stupid to umderstand the point.

Definition of irony

 

[Randolphkeys]

Changing the subject, who can give me the down low down on Hue Jackson. Why are they keeping him around if he sucks and they have made so many changes? If I am going to root for the Browns I might as well know the good and the bad. I like Hayley, but it sounds like Rothlesburger wanted more control over calling plays. Do I have that right? Thanks in advance. I was a big fan of the Brian Sipe's era. The Kardiac Kids if I recall correctly. Great times. I love underdogs.

I am very happy you are steering away from the Allen discussion. At the end of the day, fans don't make this decision. Fans should give whomever the Browns draft the benefit of the doubt until he proves he can't cut it in the NFL.

When literally everyone on the site had chalked up Hue as good as gone, I tried to get folk to pump the brakes. Hue is not the head coach you hire to win a championship, but he is the coach you hire to corral immature personalities and install an NFL offense. You don't want him making major decisions on personnel, but you can trust him to connect with rookies who don't know what they are doing yet as well as treat vets like men. Hue has also been a great politician with ownership every stop along the way. So, I don't know how long he will lead the Browns, but you can't judge his coaching just by the record.

 

[RichieRichPaul]

i find myself feeling like im on crazy pills.

our gm might actually take the worst, least accurate qb in the draft

i cant even believe it actually might happen. by every measurable statistic we might take an absolute bum because he throws hard

barstool literally made a website mocking people dumb enough to say things like "throws hard, tall, big hands, etc.."

any of the other 3 are fine w me...but if john dorsey blows this pick w allen, might as well throw him in the pile w sashi and ray farmer