CP3 Deal (DONE to CLIPS)

[KB]

You are completely ignoring the other end of the floor though. Dwight is the best defensive player in the game. You have to factor that in as well. And you can't just throw out stats like, "Kobe was 25 5 and 5." That's taking stats out of context and they have little to no significance. Dwight was the only player in the league to average 23 points, 14 rebounds, and 2.5 blocks last year. Does that make him the best?

And pointing to the finals is kinda pointless for this argument, considering that was over 2 years ago and we are talking about the hear and now...

I am not ignoring defense as I stated in my first post that Kobe can control/dictate tempo on both sides of the floor from three different positions (don't know how this is ignoring defense or "the other side of the floor")

Kobe's made the All NBA Defensive First Team 9 times (counting last year) so he is also one of the best defensive players in the game as is Dwight. Kobe is almost always matched up against the other teams best offensive wing, which as you admit is a the most talent/skill heavy position in the league so since that position has more talent/skill depth it would, by logical to assume that it requires more defensive effort to contain those players since they are more talented/skilled group. Kobe’s been doing that for almost 10 years, we hear it every time the Lakers play a game....

In regards to the here and now is the fact that Kobe's year last year was better than Dwight's. My purpose of citing Kobe's stat line is to show he is still as productive, if not more so, than the young guys that put up similar numbers.

I brought up the finals from 2 years ago to show that if Dwight doesn't get the ball in the right spots he is not that effective. When he seems to be having a bad game on offense this effects his defensive effort and he usually ends up in foul trouble out of frustration (happened in two of those finals games). Those finals were also a perfect example of how good Kobe is at controlling tempo on both sides of the ball since Kobe was either guarding Nelson (when he came back) or Hedo. The job of Nelson and Hedo in that series was to get Dwight the ball in the right spots which didn’t happen on a consistent enough basis due to way Kobe played defense on the P & R’s

The places Dwight gets the ball half the time are not good spots for him to make moves (too far away) due to his lack of a refined post game as he relies too much on athleticism and strength. Dwight is easily the best big in the game but he is not a better player than Kobe

 

[Obawan12]

I am not ignoring defense as I stated in my first post that Kobe can control/dictate tempo on both sides of the floor from three different positions (don't know how this is ignoring defense or "the other side of the floor")

Kobe's made the All NBA Defensive First Team 9 times (counting last year) so he is also one of the best defensive players in the game as is Dwight. Kobe is almost always matched up against the other teams best offensive wing, which as you admit is a the most talent/skill heavy position in the league so since that position has more talent/skill depth it would, by logical to assume that it requires more defensive effort to contain those players since they are more talented/skilled group. Kobe’s been doing that for almost 10 years, we hear it every time the Lakers play a game....

In regards to the here and now is the fact that Kobe's year last year was better than Dwight's. My purpose of citing Kobe's stat line is to show he is still as productive, if not more so, than the young guys that put up similar numbers.

I brought up the finals from 2 years ago to show that if Dwight doesn't get the ball in the right spots he is not that effective. When he seems to be having a bad game on offense this effects his defensive effort and he usually ends up in foul trouble out of frustration (happened in two of those finals games). Those finals were also a perfect example of how good Kobe is at controlling tempo on both sides of the ball since Kobe was either guarding Nelson (when he came back) or Hedo. The job of Nelson and Hedo in that series was to get Dwight the ball in the right spots which didn’t happen on a consistent enough basis due to way Kobe played defense on the P & R’s

The places Dwight gets the ball half the time are not good spots for him to make moves (too far away) due to his lack of a refined post game as he relies too much on athleticism and strength. Dwight is easily the best big in the game but he is not a better player than Kobe

Once again, the Finals are moot as what Kobe was doing over 2 years ago has nothing do with what he is doing now.

Dwight doesn't just guard good big men- he guards the entire opposing team. He has won defensive MVP 3 straight seasons simply because he has turned a Magic team that usually puts 4 lousy defenders around him into a team that is consistently one of the top 5 defenses in basketball. Team's have to change their offensive game plan because of Dwight Howard. Nobody is changing their defensive game plan because of Kobe, especially now. Kobe is was most certainly not worthy of All NBA Defense last year- he is living purely off reputation now. Just because Kobe asks to guard the best wing players sometimes, doesn't mean he is doing a good job. I'm not saying he is a bad defender, he is still an average one, but certainly no where near Dwight's level.

Hollinger on Dwight's D:

Howard is the three-time Defensive Player of the Year winner so this information won't shock you, but let's just say the stats back up the voters on this one. Howard, according to Synergy, was the best defensive player in basketball last season, with opponents scoring only 0.73 points on plays involving him. Among centers he was 12th in blocks per minute, ninth in steals, third in defensive rebound rate, and he had the ninth lowest foul rate -- and even that was boosted by how many offensive fouls he picks up.

For the year, Orlando gave 3.04 points per 100 possessions less with him on the court, a figure that gets more impressive when one considers that three starters he often shared the court with (Jameer Nelson, Jason Richardson and Hedo Turkoglu) were strongly negative ? meaning Howard overcame a riptide working against him. As for scoring on him directly, forget it: Opposing centers had an 11.3 PER against Howard, according to 82games.com.

Hollinger on Kobe:

Defensively, Bryant remained solid in one-on-one play (although he rarely left the weak side). His Synergy numbers were in the middle of the pack and opposing shooting guards mustered just an 11.8 PER against him, according to 82games.com, but the Lakers allowed 4.58 points more per 100 possessions with him on the court -- the worst figure on the team. He tends to go on cruise control if he thinks he can get away with it and his first-team All-Defense selection by the "coaches" was a joke, but between his size, strength and competitiveness he's a plus defender. Bryant also remains among the better rebounding guards in the game, ranking 10th at his position in rebound rate.

There really is no way to justify saying that Bryant is even close to Howard defensively... unless, of course, you are going by 2006, and when I read through your posts defending Kobe, I kinda suspect you still are...

 

[Triumph36]

Dwight Howard is arguably the best player in the game and one of two players who can single-handedly carry any team in the league to the playoffs. The best player in the league and other player who can carry any team to the playoffs is most certainly not Kobe Bryant.

Glad to see Kobe is still among the most overrated players though. Someday it has to stop.....I hope?

 

[Mdog1]

Kobe's definately not better than Dwight fucking Howard. Dwight may be the best player in the game atm, and Kobe is top 5 if he's lucky. Don't get me wrong Kobe blows Dwight out of the water in all time rankings, but for right now Kobe is old and past his prime, Dwight is in his prime and set to dominate even more. The only argument for Kobe over Dwight is Kobe chucks his way to more points. That's not much of an argument.

Edit: In fact I think someone could make a very logical argument that Kobe has NEVER been the best player in the league. The early 2000's was all Shaq, then Duncan until LeBron started to dominate, and now it is a toss up between LeBron and Dwight. Personally I don't think Kobe was ever the best player, certainly not when he got gifted the MVP over CP3 got robbed.

 

[Obawan12]

Kobe's definately not better than Dwight fucking Howard. Dwight may be the best player in the game atm, and Kobe is top 5 if he's lucky. Don't get me wrong Kobe blows Dwight out of the water in all time rankings, but for right now Kobe is old and past his prime, Dwight is in his prime and set to dominate even more. The only argument for Kobe over Dwight is Kobe chucks his way to more points. That's not much of an argument.

Edit: In fact I think someone could make a very logical argument that Kobe has NEVER been the best player in the league. The early 2000's was all Shaq, then Duncan until LeBron started to dominate, and now it is a toss up between LeBron and Dwight. Personally I don't think Kobe was ever the best player, certainly not when he got gifted the MVP over CP3 got robbed.

MVP is a popularity contest. It means nothing. That's why there are so many laughable MVP awards, like Derrick Rose last year. Rose isn't even one of the top 5 players in the league. LeBron or Dwight should have been MVP last year based solely on individual accolades/statistics/defense, as they were far and away the two best players in the league last year. Right now it really is LeBron and Dwight, then there is a bit of a gap between the next group of players.

As for Kobe, he is still living off his reputation. The same thing that happened to Jordan is already happening to Kobe, even though he is still playing: everyone remembers "the legend" Kobe and not the actual player. Jordan may be the best player ever, but he wasn't as amazing as people make him out to be. Same thing applies to Kobe.

 

[Mdog1]

MVP is a popularity contest. It means nothing. That's why there are so many laughable MVP awards, like Derrick Rose last year. Rose isn't even one of the top 5 players in the league. LeBron or Dwight should have been MVP last year based solely on individual accolades/statistics/defense, as they were far and away the two best players in the league last year. Right now it really is LeBron and Dwight, then there is a bit of a gap between the next group of players.

As for Kobe, he is still living off his reputation. The same thing that happened to Jordan is already happening to Kobe, even though he is still playing: everyone remembers "the legend" Kobe and not the actual player. Jordan may be the best player ever, but he wasn't as amazing as people make him out to be. Same thing applies to Kobe.

Rose shouldn't have won MVP, but really it was a perfect storm for him to win it. LeBron "had too much help". and he won the previous two, Dwight's team wasn't really good, Kobe's team and numbers weren't good enough, Melo & Amare playing ont he same team, Wade playing with LeBron, and many more stories like that. Basically Rose was the only person that they could give it to.

 

[Obawan12]

Rose shouldn't have won MVP, but really it was a perfect storm for him to win it. LeBron "had too much help". and he won the previous two, Dwight's team wasn't really good, Kobe's team and numbers weren't good enough, Melo & Amare playing ont he same team, Wade playing with LeBron, and many more stories like that. Basically Rose was the only person that they could give it to.

It was all about the story. Rose wasn't the only person they could give it to: LeBron and Dwight were perfectly good candidates. Rose was who the media wanted to give it to, so he got it. I could see the same thing happening for CP3 this year if he just has one of his normal 20-10 years and the Clippers win that division. It would be a great story in many aspects and the media would be all over it.

 

[Mdog1]

It was all about the story. Rose wasn't the only person they could give it to: LeBron and Dwight were perfectly good candidates. Rose was who the media wanted to give it to, so he got it. I could see the same thing happening for CP3 this year if he just has one of his normal 20-10 years and the Clippers win that division. It would be a great story in many aspects and the media would be all over it.

I've never unrstood why the media gets the votes. it would make more sense if the fans got the vote, or if the players got to vote like they used to. Or at least don't give the media the majority vote. The media is idiotic.

 

[Triumph36]

I've never unrstood why the media gets the votes. it would make more sense if the fans got the vote, or if the players got to vote like they used to. Or at least don't give the media the majority vote. The media is idiotic.

lol oh god no. that would be even worse. most fans suck hard.

reading this thread again has reminded me how horribly misplayed this trade was by the clippers. could've been able to slide barnes or gilchrist into the starting lineup next season if they didn't outbid themselves. it's kind of hard to imagine a team overpaying for the best player in the league at his respective position, but they somehow managed to do it.

 

[Mdog1]

Yeah fans suck. Can you imagine how many MVP's Kobe would have had, and how many Jimmer would get? I can honestly say Jimmer will win like 15 lol. Still the media isn't much better. They just want to sell.

 

[Tornicade]

I bet Tim Tebow could win the NBA MVP if fans were able to vote for him

 

[CPK]

I bet Tim Tebow could win the NBA MVP if fans were able to vote for him

Praise the lord!

 

[Mdog1]

God Bless.