We got confirmation that Lebron wanted Blatt gone from day 1.
But this isn't a point of contention in this conversation, is it?
We got confirmation that Lebron scrapped the offense and Mike Miller said "They didn't have the personnel to run it." after he said it was borderline genius.
If we didn't have the personnel to run it, why does it take James to scrap it? Again, what point are you making?
We got the confirmation that Lebron wanted a coach that had been in the NBA
In Year 1, yes. In Year 2?
and preferably one that was african american.
That's bullshit... and we never got any confirmation from anybody that this was the case.. Stop.
If you ask me, Blatt wasn't on time because he knew his days were numbered.
So you excuse him being late for work and holding up the players and team?
Dan Gilbert is investing nearly half a billion dollars over the course of this guy's contract and he can show up late to work and that's okay with you?
He couldn't fight the Biggest name in basketball.
According to who? Again, no one disputes this happened Year 1, you're conflating what happened prior to Griffin press conference 2014-15 and Griffin press conference 2015-16. Is this confusion purposeful? Seems intellectually dishonest to ignore how much James' approach changed between the Finals last season and January of 2016.
He tried, but he couldn't do it. If you have ever been put in a position where it has been made impossible to do your job, you don't bust your ass to get everything done on time.
I have never, in my life, decided to take a paycheck and slack off on the job, deliberately showing up late, and not doing what I was supposed to do. I give it my all, or I walk.
He could've quit. He didn't. He cashed his paycheck. You're excusing his performance because you're creating a narrative that James was, this year, preventing him from doing his job. I find that logic to be reliant on a remarkable degree of speculation; speculation in the face of a wide swath of media reports.
You think if Lue were in charge the Cavs would have won in 2015.
Yes, but I don't blame Blatt for losing the Finals; this seems like a strawman argument on your part.
Is it? First off, I disagree that it's absurd, secondly I do not think the Cavs would've surely won; third, this hasn't anything to do with why he was fired.
That team was gassed and running on fumes by game 4. I knew they had given it their best shot by then.
I think Lue would've gone a bit deeper into the rotation and given James at least a few minutes of rest. I think Lue demonstrated he knows what he's doing, which is more than I can say for David Blatt on the Cavs even if I do concede he was a good coach overseas and likely will be in Turkey.
We know the Cavs badmouth coaches and players on their way out. There is a pattern here.
So, all of the reporters are lying?
Who is your source for information then? Yourself?
I said that moving to coach Lue was the right decision, but to me it doesn't mean Blatt is a bad coach.
But I've not said he was a bad coach; I've said he was a bad coach for this team.
Blatt, in the NBA, needs to be a developmental coach, a coach on a team full of rookies; like in Boston.
I think you do yourself a disservice (and a disservice to James, Lue, and Griffin) by ignoring the fact that it was the veterans who wanted Blatt gone; not simply James.
He could have very well had the same success this year with a better roster, we do not know.
I somehow doubt that, but, we don't really know so why offer this as evidence to your claim? It's irrational. What we do know is that, operationally, within his role as coach, he was not performing his job. You can blame whoever you want, but that's the bottom line.
I love Lue, man. He is great and he fucking delivered in his rookie year. It is impressive. His team was 2x or more better than the team Blatt rolled into the finals with.
Blatt didn't get fired after the Finals...
Somehow you seem to miss this?? If anything, the Cavs winning those two games allowed him to keep his job until late January.
It's something personal with you.
Oh wow...
So again, you attack me personally because of my argument? Now, I must have a personal hangup with David Blatt? What might that be? Fill me in on your suspicions.. I'm curious...
i don't know why you are so in lockstep with this narrative.
Because it's fact-based?
What narrative should I listen to?
Yours? Why? I'm asking you, and have continued to ask you, to explain to me why your picture of the world is correct and mine is incorrect; because it would seem the preponderance of evidence is squarely against you. Do you honestly disagree?
Simply put; within the scope of your conclusions, what is actually based in anything that can be related back to more than a single named source,
including a journalist?
Or do you acknowledge that you are not making a rational argument and are just speaking on supposition?
Chris Parker has said that the media had a bias against Blatt because their rapport was strained.
But, I haven't disregarded his commentary. I'm well aware of what he thinks.
He and I discussed this in the Lloyd thread, along with the admin of the site who voiced his opinion as well.
So with respect to Chris, I've said
almost every single reporter who wrote a story on the subject said xyz. @jking went insofar as to enumerate them for you; yet you've disregarded that to pick and choose what narrative you will choose to believe.
I, however, have decided to weigh everything in proportion.
Who is being more rational in this instance? Who is demonstrative of prejudice and bias? Me or you?
So with that said, I'll put it more simply, either you believe there was/is some grand conspiracy against David Blatt, or, you accept that he wasn't very good in his role here as coach.
It seems like you'd prefer to believe in conspiracy theories.
He has stated that it wasn't the entire locker room against Blatt.
I'm sure it wasn't all 15 players. More like 12. Does that make a difference for you.. or..?
We had JR and others sing his praises.
So..? So you're saying that meant JR didn't agree with the consensus decision that he should be let go..? Windhorst and McMenamin stated that there was no veteran on the team that felt that way; so are they both lying?
I could understand if it was just Windhorst; but McMenamin too huh?
Max told us that Lebron wanted someone else.
So..?
Does that mean LeBron got Blatt fired in January of 2016, or that he wanted someone else in December of 2014?
Again, you're conflating things.
When I get primary sources I disregard official press releases and bullshit cover stories.
What are your primary sources?
Chris Parker is the press and, again with respect, has less team access than Dave McMenamin. Why not listen to both and weigh the evidence accordingly?
You've also discounted another insider on this board that didn't agree with your interpretation of things,
at all. Why? My guess is you'd prefer to go with a snap judgement from an insider on the hour of Blatt's firing where everyone was in shock. And it's not like he wrote some detailed post with 15 paragraphs, he made a comment -- you decided to read whatever you would into it.
Now, six months later, looking back, we have a great deal more information. Yet you'd prefer to ignore it... why?
There is more to this story than Blatt is a bad coach, and I don't think we will ever know what it was.
Why are all the media reporters wrong and you're right?
I think there is evidence to make an argument. I think the case is definitely tilted against the claims you're making.
I do not think you are open to hearing anything that might be contrary to your point of view.
Yet you are accusing me of bias?
This is your personal crusade, so have fun with it.
Why is it my "personal crusade?"
You act like I'm in here pulling a Birdie... When people bring him up, I comment on it.. I'm on record having said it shouldn't be discussed in this thread, yet it's my personal crusade. Is that how you get by in an argument?
Attack my motives, impugn my character, call me a mouthpiece, and then dismiss my claims outright because I surely must have secretly always had it out for him?
Even though I wanted him hired over Lue? (check the thread)
Even though I said "give the man a fucking chance" (check the thread)
Even though I said it was fucked up that we can't run his offense, that's why I wanted him hired? (check the thread)
Even though I went into how I went back and watched him coach in Europe on YouTube and thought this was a great pickup?
Even though I went in on LeBron for fucking with him in Year 1?
Even though I argued with numerous posters in the game threads that called for him to be fired?
Even though, after the Christmas game I didn't want him fired?
Even though after the MLK day game against the Spurs I didn't want him fired?
Even though, the day he got fired, I went
in on David Griffin and LeBron?
All of this is document in these threads.. yet I have bias against him?
Get the fuck outta of here with that bullshit accusation.
I just liked coach Blatt, I liked the way he talked about basketball,
That's all the fuck you, or anyone else, has to say...
Just say that and be done with it.
I think he did an amazing job in the finals,
Ok.
and IMO he is the 2nd best coach of the last 20 years.
I mean... Mike Fratello, Lenny Wilkens, and Paul Silas; hell, you could make an argument (using your logic) for Mike Brown, and I'm sure many would.
But real talk, I don't care.. It's not worth arguing who is a better between those guys.. If it helps you sleep at night, have it at..
My problem with your argument:
1) It's not fact-based. And by "fact" I mean, it's not sourced. It's just narrative and speculation. You cite 1 reporter who is admittedly an outlier and is "pro-Blatt," which in itself would be fine, but you compound this by #2.
2) You ignore every single report from every single reporter that doesn't comport to your narrative. That, by definition, is irrational. You're not actually weighing information here, you're engaging in selection bias by picking and choosing what sources to use while disregarding others.
There is no proportion, logic, or method to your analysis.. it simply is based on the emotional response brought about by you "simply liking David Blatt," and "you can't convince me he's a bad coach." And you're ignoring that neither of these beliefs am I trying to argue against.
3) You're accusing me of bias and prejudice. Which I obviously take exception to. You have no evidence of bias; you just throw that out there because you can't back up your claims.