How did we lose? An argument for no big changes.

[Green Lantern]

This is why I think TT is our best trade chip. I'd love to flip him for someone who provides more rim protection and DEFENSIVE rebounding. That would make us immensely better without having to trade our big 3.

Any ideas who that might be?
Oh I agree and have been saying through many threads we lack defensive players..
I don't know at the moment who could be a target but if the Clippers want to move D. Jordan, I'd be all over that.
The bigger question is ,with all the stuff going on about the GM position, have the Cavs FO figured out that they need defense?
I'll be very concerned if the new GM ,even if it is Billups knows they need a infusion of defense.

 

[arglebargle]

This is part of the problem though. There's zero continuity. The offense is LeBron and Kyrie create, Love stands in the corner, JR stands on the wing, and TT sets screens and waits for rebounds. You take LeBron out of the equation and there's no system. The system should accelerate their talents, not be defined by them.

The issue was really driven home on one of the road trippin' podcasts. RJ was talking about the very different roles that he has as an SF vs what LeBron has. You're running two completely different systems. When the team doesn't practice very much, how can you expect them to effectively run two different offensive and defensive systems with any success?

GSW doesn't change their system when Durant and Curry sit. The Bulls didn't stop running the triangle when Jordan went to the bench. Ditto for the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe. You can go on and on. Were those teams as effective when their superstars sat? No. They also didnt hemmorhage points the second their superstar player(s) sat down.

That's the one major criticism of LeBron that I have - he doesn't seem to ever want to exist in an environment that has an offensive "system." It's just LeBron does the brilliant LeBron things, and the other team members are engaged or not. This is why there is so much ball-watching and times where nobody is moving around. When GSW get down in a game they wind up passing and moving more, not less, and it's the exact opposite of the Cavs. I don't see any way past it with the stars we have. I can't see LeBron and Kyrie changing their long-held habits, which might force the rest of the team to engage in a "system." You'd have to have a coach who could actually make those two stick with a plan.

 

[MarkPriceFan]

That's the one major criticism of LeBron that I have - he doesn't seem to ever want to exist in an environment that has an offensive "system." It's just LeBron does the brilliant LeBron things, and the other team members are engaged or not. This is why there is so much ball-watching and times where nobody is moving around. When GSW get down in a game they wind up passing and moving more, not less, and it's the exact opposite of the Cavs. I don't see any way past it with the stars we have. I can't see LeBron and Kyrie changing their long-held habits, which might force the rest of the team to engage in a "system." You'd have to have a coach who could actually make those two stick with a plan.

I agree with this, and thats why to me it makes sense to find a way to land Melo and/or Wade. We are likely to remain an iso heavy offense, so what we need is a guy off the bench who can do the same while Lebron gets a lot more rest. That and improved defensive role players like a legit rim protector and a better defensive PG and/or wing.

PG13 would be great, and I do think he would worth trading Love for, but its looking less and less likely that this will go down. We still have enough with the current big 3 if we get Lebron a lot more rest and can still score in bunches with our 2nd unit.

 

[Green Lantern]

Wade or Melo off the bench could help there. Then we need to sign some guys who can play d and play within a structured offense for the 2nd unit. It doesn't help much vs the Warriors though. About the only thing that help us there is a player like George who can slow Durant a little bit, while matching his offensive output.

Pains me to say it but I'd rather have Wade than Melo..a healthy Wade impacts both sides of court more than "Mellow Yellow" would...oh and that was a soft drink for those who don't remember.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Pains me to say it but I'd rather have Wade than Melo..a healthy Wade impacts both sides of court more than "Mellow Yellow" would...oh and that was a soft drink for those who don't remember.

.
I'd rather take.Melo.

I think you'd see something closer to "Olympic Melo". He has the size to.play the 3/4 which is what we need. Plus he's a much better 3 point shooter. Spaces the floor better.

And I think Melo COULD bring it defensively if he committed to that end. I really do.

 

[MarkPriceFan]

.
I'd rather take.Melo.

I think you'd see something closer to "Olympic Melo". He has the size to.play the 3/4 which is what we need. Plus he's a much better 3 point shooter. Spaces the floor better.

And I think Melo COULD bring it defensively if he committed to that end. I really do.

Yep, this is my position as well. JR/Korver are better fits at the 2 than Wade on this team. Melo is exactly what we need to score points while Lebron rests. But it seems like he will only be available in an offseason trade. He could be bought out at the deadline, but I really want to get our team set up at the start and give them the full season to work any kinks out. Look how badly Deron fit in at the end. I'm sure he could do a better job if given time to assimilate.

 

[sleepmaster]

Any ideas who that might be?
Oh I agree and have been saying through many threads we lack defensive players..
I don't know at the moment who could be a target but if the Clippers want to move D. Jordan, I'd be all over that.
The bigger question is ,with all the stuff going on about the GM position, have the Cavs FO figured out that they need defense?
I'll be very concerned if the new GM ,even if it is Billups knows they need a infusion of defense.

Deandre Jordan would be nice if we don't get Paul George. He would complement Kevin Love really well so I wouldn't trade Love for him. When the regular season starts and Tristan shows his finals performance was an abberation at the same time people realize how dependent Deandre was on Chris Paul, I'd look to trade Tristan for him. The only people who would trade for him are contenders that need a rim protector. Rockets have Capella, Boston doesn't but prefers Anthony Davis with all the draft picks they have to trade for someone, the Warriors need a center but won't break up their Big 4 and trade Thompson until they lose another Finals. The Spurs may want to swap Aldridge for him but the system-oriented Spurs tend to prefer big men more skilled offensively than that. The Wizards may decide to replace Gortat with him but who knows since Gortat is better offensively. A midseason lowball offer for a possibly malcontent Jordan using Tristan instead of Love just might pay off.

 

[chuck0609]

.
I'd rather take.Melo.

I think you'd see something closer to "Olympic Melo". He has the size to.play the 3/4 which is what we need. Plus he's a much better 3 point shooter. Spaces the floor better.

And I think Melo COULD bring it defensively if he committed to that end. I really do.

Agree 100%.

 

[sleepmaster]

.
I'd rather take.Melo.

I think you'd see something closer to "Olympic Melo". He has the size to.play the 3/4 which is what we need. Plus he's a much better 3 point shooter. Spaces the floor better.

And I think Melo COULD bring it defensively if he committed to that end. I really do.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...would-accept-buyout-for-cavs-trade-to-rockets

Melo's latest stance is alleged to be that he would accept a buyout to the Cavs or a trade to Houston. If this is true, Melo likes the combination of close friend Chris Paul and 20 million dollars enough to test the waters with D'Antoni again for a year.

Houston wants to trade for either George or Melo to complete a Big 3. If the Rockets can't get George then they will be desperate enough for Melo that a trade for him will likely get done. So the Cavs won't be getting both George and Melo this year unless a miracle trade happens.

The timing of this story with Paul George becoming more pragmatic towards Boston and Houston, makes me wonder if Melo and George have accepted the reality that their joint plan to go to the Cavs this year may not happen. If George ends up on the Cavs, I wouldn't be surprised to see Carmelo accept a trade to the Rockets and then opt out to join the Cavs next year.

George ending up on the Rockets would make it a lock Carmelo eventually ends up on the Cavs this year. Melo currently giving the Knicks front office a choice between a trade to Houston and a Cleveland buyout is smart PR, because it's harder for the Knicks to dig in their heels if Houston gets George and a buyout becomes their only option. That's why this article passes the smell test and seems true to me. If the Cavs can't get George, then root for Houston to get George so Melo comes to the Cavs via buyout and they still get a Big 4. And then when Chris Paul and James Harden don't work out and Houston gets swept by Golden State, George forces a sign and trade to the Cavs next year with Melo now there.

So if the Rockets are willing to give up the store for George and the Pacers accept that offer, it won't be as bad as people think, and maybe even be a blessing in disguise. Lebron-Kyrie-Love-Melo this year and then a sign and trade of George to go to the Cavs in exchange for Kevin Love next year. Lebron won't leave that. The risk of Lebron leaving could paradixically be greater if we get Paul George this year which leads to Melo going to the Rockets and we only have a Big 3.

Once we get both Melo and George and the Rockets crash and burn like the Nets, Chris Paul can negotiate a buyout and become our backup point guard.

The Rockets are our friends. Be grateful for Daryl Morey and his insanity.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Once we get both Melo and George and the Rockets crash and burn like the Nets, Chris Paul can negotiate a buyout and become our backup point guard.

 

[MarkyCavs88]

We'll get Melo. And then add role players who are more defensively minded.

 

[sleepmaster]

Chris Paul pushing for a buyout to come here three years later could happen. By then he'll have made all the money he wants. Backup point guard at age 35-36 sounds about right, especially to play for a championship team with all his banana boat friends.

The willingness to overpay for George is now in this order:

Rockets
Lakers
Celtics
Cavs

The Rockets coming to the poker table and raising everybody to get the third member of their Big 3 sandwiches the two teams we really don't want getting George, Boston or the Lakers, where there's greater risk of George signing an extension. So if we don't get George now, we get to see how our Big 4 of Lebron-Kyrie-Love-Melo with Wade on the side works out for a year before deciding on whether to flip Love for George a year from now. Either way, with Lebron, Melo, and Wade all in Cleveland, why wouldn't Chris Paul want to come here and leave 1-2 yrs of salary on the table after Morey's little experiment fails. Paul preferred Cleveland over Houston but it didn't work out. With two years left Paul could give up 1.5 years of salary to come here.

 

[buzzdog]

I won't comment on player moves other than to agree that if possible we need to move towards getting younger, more athletic, and longer personnel wherever possible. But above all they need to be smart players capable of understanding schemes and filling roles.

The key thing I want to see happen regardless of wherever the roster ends up is that we need to develop and execute stricter systems on both offense and defense throughout the regular season. We need to put an emphasis on those systems and not allow them to be completely based on the rotation of players on the floor. Make Kyrie and Lebron fit into those systems just like the rest of the rotation, make the bodies on the floor as interchangable as possible within reason.

I understand we have great ISO and P&R players in Lebron and Kyrie and I don't advocate abandoning those things. But Lue can pretty much just roll the ball out on the floor for us to successfully use those strategies when appropriate. Those don't require as much practice, precision and communication as it does to execute team offense and team defense with a high level of proficiency.

So for me the biggest improvement we can make is to figure out some systems and strategies and strongly emphasize sticking to them throughout the regular season. Do this until it becomes instinctive and second nature with everyone all the way down to the last player on the bench.

Do not be entirely dependent on Lebron and Kyrie the way we were last season, force more of a team effort as the normal way of playing.

There should not be a drastic drop-off whenever Lebron sits. These are all NBA players and they should all be able to compete as a team at a high level regardless of who sits.

That's what the best teams (Warriors & Spurs, to some degree the Celts) do. From what I saw in the finals it wasn't just about individual players. The Warriors played as a team, and the Cavs? Not so much. Fucking off the whole RS left us unable to play as a team when things got tough, we rely too much on individual excellence from a couple of guys.

 

[Green Lantern]

.
I'd rather take.Melo.

I think you'd see something closer to "Olympic Melo". He has the size to.play the 3/4 which is what we need. Plus he's a much better 3 point shooter. Spaces the floor better.

And I think Melo COULD bring it defensively if he committed to that end. I really do.

There's a fine line here..Mellow might do some things better, but Wade has a mentality that CA does not..he wants to play defense..he wants to show up and outplay his opponent.
He's had a fire in him that Melo has not consistantly had.
And Wade can certainly run the offense, negating the need for D. Williams, who looked like a player who had never been to finals ..(he hadn't but he looked awful playing against the Warriors.)
I know all about Melo's skill level but I doubt if we see any close resemblance to Olympic Carmelo..

 

[jvpertz]

I agree with the OP...

We don't need to change the core.
Love was good in 4 out of the 5 games against the Warriors
Lebron was great every game
Kyrie was good to great
JR was better near the end of the series

However, EVERYBODY else besides those four was WORTHLESS the rest of the series. Got to find defense in the worst way possible.