How did we lose? An argument for no big changes.

[JMoneyYourHoney]

So if we don't get George now, we get to see how our Big 4 of Lebron-Kyrie-Love-Melo with Wade on the side works out for a year before deciding on whether to flip Love for George a year from now. Either way, with Lebron, Melo, and Wade all in Cleveland, why wouldn't Chris Paul want to come here and leave 1-2 yrs of salary on the table after Morey's little experiment fails. Paul preferred Cleveland over Houston but it didn't work out. With two years left Paul could give up 1.5 years of salary to come here.

This is retarded. Not only are you just assuming that both Wade AND Melo are going to be here, you're assuming we'll still be a contender when Paul is old enough to accept a buyout and play on the minimum.

 

[sleepmaster]

Melo is iffier than Wade but I think both are possible. I believe the mention of Paul's first choice having been Cleveland over Houston was accurate and that Lebron-George-Melo-Paul seem to be colluding to try to all end up here whether now or in the future, so I say the chances are better than you think. If it takes trading for Melo instead of a buyout because Melo wants more than the MLE and so we need his bird rights then so be it. Wade can take MLE for a few years and after that Chris Paul can take the MLE. Three years from now Lebron will be 35, the same age as Michael Jordan when he won his last championship with the Bulls. Jordan and Pippen thought they could have gotten another one but Reinsdorf chose to break up the team.

 

[TitleTown]

Melo is iffier than Wade but I think both are possible. I believe the mention of Paul's first choice having been Cleveland over Houston was accurate and that Lebron-George-Melo-Paul seem to be colluding to try to all end up here whether now or in the future, so I say the chances are better than you think. If it takes trading for Melo instead of a buyout because Melo wants more than the MLE and so we need his bird rights then so be it. Wade can take MLE for a few years and after that Chris Paul can take the MLE. Three years from now Lebron will be 35, the same age as Michael Jordan when he won his last championship with the Bulls. Jordan and Pippen thought they could have gotten another one but Reinsdorf chose to break up the team.

Can I borrow your crystal ball? I want to play the lottery.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Wade can take MLE for a few years

You mean the Wade who just left his franchise for more money? Dwyane Wade isn't playing for the MLE, least of all for a "few years".

Three years from now Lebron will be 35, the same age as Michael Jordan when he won his last championship with the Bulls. Jordan and Pippen thought they could have gotten another one but Reinsdorf chose to break up the team.

35-year old LeBron isn't leading 35-year old Chris Paul, 36-year old Carmelo Anthony and 39-year old Dwyane Wade to anything but a Perry Mason telethon.

 

[sleepmaster]

At age 35, Lebron, who should still be one of the best players in the league if Michael Jordan was any indication, will have Kyrie at age 28 and Paul George at age 30. The 1998 Bulls Championship team saw Jordan age 35, Ron Harper age 34, Scottie Pippen age 32, Dennis Rodman age 37.

The gap between the MLE and what Wade could command in the open market next year won't be nearly as big as it was when Wade signed with Chicago. Wade turning down 15 million a year to play with his friends is unrealistic. Wade turning down 5-8 million a year to play with friends is another situation entirely, especially if that's his last chance to do so before he retires.

 

[sleepmaster]

Can I borrow your crystal ball? I want to play the lottery.

I'm just assuming the colluding players will get what they seem to be trying to get. The Love for George trade domino that needs to fall first is the part they have the least control over since Indy is in charge of that. If that goes through, trading for Melo should be easier.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

So, Calipari is interested in coaching in the NBA. If Dan REALLY wanted to improve the Cavs chances, he would drop Ty Lue like a bad habit, and let Calipari write his own check. Of course, If Dan REALLY wanted to improve the Cavs chances, he would have never shit-canned David Griffin...

 

[SmudgeHog]

The 1998 Bulls Championship team saw Jordan age 35, Ron Harper age 34, Scottie Pippen age 32, Dennis Rodman age 37.

And a 35 year old Bill Wennington, 33 year old Steve Kerr, 30 year old Toni Kucoč, and 30 year old Jud Buechler

 

[Gus Zing]

So, Calipari is interested in coaching in the NBA. If Dan REALLY wanted to improve the Cavs chances, he would drop Ty Lue like a bad habit, and let Calipari write his own check. Of course, If Dan REALLY wanted to improve the Cavs chances, he would have never shit-canned David Griffin...

Problem with Cal is that he's not the greatest X's and O's guy either. Now he's great with handling big ego players and making them come together as a team. So I'm not sure how great the upside would be.

Let me know when Coach K wants to coach in the NBA and then I'll be interested.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

At age 35, Lebron, who should still be one of the best players in the league if Michael Jordan was any indication, will have Kyrie at age 28 and Paul George at age 30. The 1998 Bulls Championship team saw Jordan age 35, Ron Harper age 34, Scottie Pippen age 32, Dennis Rodman age 37.

The gap between the MLE and what Wade could command in the open market next year won't be nearly as big as it was when Wade signed with Chicago. Wade turning down 15 million a year to play with his friends is unrealistic. Wade turning down 5-8 million a year to play with friends is another situation entirely, especially if that's his last chance to do so before he retires.

This is a pretty poor comparison. At age 35, Jordan had only played a total of 43,000 regular season and playoff minutes combined. At 32, LeBron's already played over 50,000 minutes combined. If he remains healthy and plays an avg of 2,500 reg season min and 700 playoff min, both of which are very conservative numbers based on his career, he'll be over 60,000 min by the time he hits 35.

No matter how good LeBron is now, those kind of minutes are completely unprecedented at that age. The better comparison would really be Kobe, who suffered a season ending injury at 35 and Kobe didn't have near the minutes played LeBron will.

We're also leaving out the fact that Jordan took nearly two years off from basketball, was playing with two future Hall-of-Famers, probably one of the top three coaches in league history, and against a pool of lesser competition.

As much as I want to believe that LeBron could still be the best player in the league at 35, it's really hard to imagine. Cavs are going to need Irving to take a substantial jump over the next three seasons if they hope to be a legit threat to win a championship when LeBron is 35. Maybe adding George helps, but you'd still need George or Irving (maybe both) to make big leaps as players over that period.

 

[Ohio]

guys we really weren't even close to winning that series

I know people are searching for hope anywhere but we got soundly beaten And I see no reason to believe the outcome changes next year short of some major changes (adding melo for scraps, warriors losing BOTH Livingston and igodoula).

I know as time goes on people will try to convince themselves we were a solid bench player away to provide hope

But we really weren't.

Yep...

Even if we don't choke Game 3, I don't think that series goes past 6 at the most.

Our path to victory was just so narrow, our margin for error so slim. There was a notable gap in talent. I mean, obviously. We were two historically great teams, and then they added Coward.

We definitely need a notable change. Adding Melo and subtracting Iggy from that series would be a good start, although I'm still not convinced that'd be enough.

Paul George and/or Melo are seemingly our last hope for this season. We don't get at least one of those guys, my interest level in the NBA will be lower than it has been in a long time for next season. The Champion will yet again be pre-determined barring ACL tears.

It would suck to have a lost year with LeBron at 33 years old but that is what we're looking at right now. We aren't beating this team as things stand today.

 

[The Red Viper]

Irrespective of whether we get PG and/or Melo, there needs to be internal improvement!

There are a few things that are absolutely vital for us to do this regular season:-

1. Not run LeBron to the ground. Rest him more. Reduce his mins in the regular season. Give him that one week or 10 days layoff during the season just to re-charge himself.

2. Run an offense which can hold its own when LeBron sits. Our performance when LeBron sat were absolutely embarrassing to watch. We went from NBA Finalists to Lottery Teams in those few mins whenever he sat. That can't happen again. It shouldn't just be Kyrie-ISOs when LeBron sits. Run an offense and have everyone involved. Create good shots instead of Kyrie trying to score over two or three players while being closley contested. Lue and Kyrie have to take the responsibility for that.

3. Each one has to take the responsibility on the defensive end. Can't just let others walk past you. Show some physicality. Fight through those screens. Great players like a LeBron can turn it on anytime he wants. But the others can't. So, in order to improve it and make it really good we have to develop that habit in regular season itself.

4. Individual Improvements.

• Kyrie:- Kyrie is at that stage of his career where great players usually take that next step. Kyrie is an amazing scorer. But he has to become a much better all-around player. I don't expect him to pass like Steve Nash or defend like Gary Payton, but he has to improve on both those aspects. The real difference between very good and great players is, great players impact the game in a variety of ways. Kyrie currently is a very good player. For him to be great, he has to become facilitate better and more, especially when LeBron sits so that we have a good offense even without LeBron and LeBron doesn't have to check back into the game after just a couple of mins. Same with defense. Fight through the screens harder instead of getting lost on the picks. As a leader, lead by example on that end. At the very least, hustle and play harder on the defensive end. Give full effort. That would be enough really!

• Love:- Love improved a lot last season. He played with more confidence and swagger. His defense improved as well. But, I still feel he can improve further more because we have seen what he can do. To be fair to him, he had a solid series against the Warriors but we need more from him. He did well from a perspective of a good role-player. But we need him to play like an All-Star/All-NBA calibre player and not just a good role-player. There's only so much he could do on the defensive end because he doesn't have that quick a first-step but offensively he could do a lot more. He has to be far more dominant down low. There were a lot of times in the NBA Finals where he wasn't able to hold down his position in the low block against likes of Klay and Iggy etc when he tried to post up. He ended up turning the ball over few times and the just give it back to LeBron or Kyrie. That can't happen. One advantage of playing being is to be able to punish down low. If he can't do that, whats the point? Also, like Kyrie, he has to take the responsibility of generating offense when LeBron sits. Its not entirely his fault but he has to demand the ball more when there's no LeBron. Take it upon himself. Lue for sure has got to do a better job of running plays through Love. Especially when you consider Love is a very good passer and already has the experience of having run the plays from the elbow.

• TT:- TT had an underwhelming season last time out. There were the usual Kardashian curse gibberish but there were also rumours about him not being completely healthy, with his knee troubling him. The key is to get him back fully healthy first. While I would love it if TT develops a some sort of offense but chances of that happening is negligible. But on the defensive end, he has to improve. Learn to box out better. Can't have Curry out-rebound your big in a Finals series. That is criminal.

• JR:- JR was really bad first couple of games. But was really good on the offense last three games. I am not worried about JR's offense. He would always be that microwave sort of player on the offense and its fine. Though, I wish he would take it to the rim few times in a game. Due to signing the contract late in the season, missing pre-season, injuries, family situation, JR never really had a proper rythm last season. But he has to be fully focused this season. Because we need his focus on the defensive end. We need him to be the defender he was in 2016 Playoffs. He would make those stupid decisions once a while but the focus has to be much better than it was in 2017 Playoffs. Hopefully, he gets into a proper rhythm this season to do that.

• LeBron:- Work on his FTs and jumper. Especially those FTs. We left a lot of points at the FT line because LeBron shot like Shaq. We need him to shoot around 75% at the very least!

• Others:- Can't expect anything more out of Shump, RJ or Frye etc. Shump is just who he is. Braindead. Can't depend on him. Frye is again someone who depends on what the match-up is. RJ is old as fuck. He still gives his all and fights but that ain't enough. May be for short stretches but definitely not as the 6th man. I know Korver and Deron had a really poor Finals performances. But, I would bring both of them back. Having a good pre-season and more playing time together, would help both of them. After few months last season, plus upcoming pre-season and few months of regular season, they would get accomodated and gelled into the offense better. We need bodies. I also wish we get Derrick Williams back. Not sure if we do but I think he can contribute as he has the size and length to have a similar sort of impact Javale McGee did for the Warriors. And to be fair to Derrick, while he isn't going to be the saviour, I thought he did fairly well prior to us taking him out of the rotation completely. Unlike most of our players, he has the athleticism which would be really valuable against a wing-heavy team like Warriors. Don't have him play major mins. Just those 4-5 mins would be vital. Another body to throw at KD. But we have to develop him for that. We should do with him what Pop did with Jonathan Simmons last season. I don't see why Derrick can't have a similar sort of impact!

• Lue:- I like a lot of what Lue has done. But I dislike a lot of stupid shit he did as well. Us completely collapsing whenever LeBron sat down for rest is mostly on him. We should be able to atleast maintain or don't lost much of the lead when LeBron sits. Not being able to create a good offense when LeBron sits is just poor coaching. He has to do a much better job there. Get Love involved and have plays run through Love when LeBron sits instead of going full Kyrie-ISOs. We have to develop some sort of defensive intensity and ruthlessness in the regular season itself. We have to create that habit from regular season itself. You have a piece like Derrick Williams to work with. Try to develop his game and help him become a solid role-player who gives you some sort of option against the Warriors, albeit for 5-6 mins. I understood why he wanted us to play at a high tempo but we have to find the right balance as well. We are a much slower team comapred to the Warriors. Our transition game, especially on the defensive end is nowhere near those guys. We can't run up and down the court along with them. We have to do that selectively. Mix it up. It makes no sense for us to play at a high tempo game against Warriors, a team which is possibly the best ever offensive team ever assembled, and they are on another level when it comes to transition offense. We can't outdo what they do. Its basic stuff really. The entire secret defensive play was so ridiculous, I don't even know where to start. We have to employ a better defensive scheme. Obviously, the key is players putting their full effort on the defensive end but the coaching staff has to come up with a defensive scheme which hides their defensive flaws as well. A high tempo game exposes our alreay average defense even more.

There are some other things we can definitely improve on but these are the key ones imo. The trades alone won't solve it. The internal improvement is a must as well!

 

[The Red Viper]

Wow. That was quite a long post. Sorry for that! Had to vent it out!

 

[Stark]

This team just does not have that many great defenders.

Our roster in the finals:

PG - Kyrie Irving: He tries, but he's below league average on defense on his best night.
SG - J.R. Smith: One of our better perimeter defenders one on one, but struggles with team concepts and gets lost often.
SF - LeBron James: Our best all-around defender, but he had to waste a ton of energy guarding Durant which left him gassed down the stretch.
PF - Kevin Love: Historically average at best, but he played good defense (in my opinion) against Golden State.
C - Tristan Thompson: Good defender overall, important because of his ability to switch onto guards.

Bench:

Deron Williams: Horrible.
Kyle Korver: Horrible.
Richard Jefferson: The defensive IQ is there, but his body is not anymore.
Channing Frye: Laughably bad.
Iman Shumpert: Took a step back, which is annoying because defense is his one and only job.
James Jones: LOL.
Dahntay Jones: Solid but didn't play.
Derrick Williams: Not bad, but again, didn't play.
Kay Felder: Injured but would've been massacred by Curry.
Walter Tavares: Injured but would've been run off the floor.

What do we have? Maybe 3 1/2 good defenders on our best night?

Look at Golden State:
Klay Thompson is an elite defender. Draymond Green just won DPOY. Durant has went from average to pretty damn good. Iguodala is fantastic off the bench. Livingston has the height to bother Kyrie or Deron, even if he isn't statistically a great defender. McCaw has the potential to be a good defender. McGee is an idiot, but he still blocks shots.

 

[chino98713104]

obviously we need to get older, lets get wade