John Hollinger's Cavaliers playoff post mortem

[cabs]

I am a lot more open to trading Allen now than I was before the playoffs. Whether its overreaction or not, it is how I am feeling right now

 

[PIP]

I am a lot more open to trading Allen now than I was before the playoffs. Whether its overreaction or not, it is how I am feeling right now

Not sure I would truly trade him. I’ve flirted with the idea and I do agree with the wear and tear on Mobley if you do this.

I just think the Cavs need to limit their on court pairing and get them used to that next season for the playoffs.

I get that there’s more issues than just the front court — but a good reason why “Mitchland” didn’t play well was because of what was on the floor with them.

It’s not like you’re gonna go into a series and split up the backcourt, which features your 2 most dominant offensive players…

You plug in one dynamic shooting SF and that will certainly help, but you’re still going to be limited in what you can do offensively…. And quite frankly if you’re gonna give up that kinda offensive rebounding to another front court — and you’re not providing any offense AND you’re compromising the guards ability to play with space ?

Split em up… Go get me a Bobby Portis type and make Jarrett Allen Evan Mobley’s backup…

 

[Jscc]

I'm not that concerned. Players will get better, but the FO needs to add shooters. If (1) they don't do it or (2) they do, but JBB isn't interested in playing them.. then yeah, we will likely see the same result next season. The FO will have nobody else to blame except themselves if either occur.

 

[Cavatt]

Not sure I would truly trade him. I’ve flirted with the idea and I do agree with the wear and tear on Mobley if you do this.

I just think the Cavs need to limit their on court pairing and get them used to that next season for the playoffs.

I get that there’s more issues than just the front court — but a good reason why “Mitchland” didn’t play well was because of what was on the floor with them.

It’s not like you’re gonna go into a series and split up the backcourt, which features your 2 most dominant offensive players…

You plug in one dynamic shooting SF and that will certainly help, but you’re still going to be limited in what you can do offensively…. And quite frankly if you’re gonna give up that kinda offensive rebounding to another front court — and you’re not providing any offense AND you’re compromising the guards ability to play with space ?

Split em up… Go get me a Bobby Portis type and make Jarrett Allen Evan Mobley’s backup…

I'm fine with starting them, but there should be a fixed plan to split them up in certain circumstances.

We really need a stretch 4 too. I thought we'd have Love awhile longer. That spacing is badly needed with these 2 guys.

Is Isaiah Mobley ready by camp? I sure hope so.

 

[inliner311]

I think offensive versatility is very important in the NBA now and a lot of stars bring that ability to play different style. Mitchell and Mobley could allow for some versatility on offense but Garland and Allen are one position players. Allen might be someone you want to move off the floor to play a different style but Garland/Mitchell carry so much of the offense that taking one off to play another style probably isn't going to a suitable counter. Mitchell's versatility comes at Garlands expensive because the other position he can play is PG.

Wings tend to bring versatility and I think that's why star wings are where the league focuses how they build their rosters. I think you got to see what Mitchell's value is out there and maybe let him regain some of his value in the first half of the season then trade him. I think doing a trade that recoups most of the value that we gave up for Mitchell then allows us to develop Mobley in a bigger role and be ready to give an offer for a star wing when available.

 

[Jscc]

Wings tend to bring versatility and I think that's why star wings are where the league focuses how they build their rosters. I think you got to see what Mitchell's value is out there and maybe let him regain some of his value in the first half of the season then trade him. I think doing a trade that recoups most of the value that we gave up for Mitchell then allows us to develop Mobley in a bigger role and be ready to give an offer for a star wing when available.

Who? This is why we jumped on Mitchell.

Star wings just don't become available. Bridges is a 2nd or 3rd option. He went for banana picks. Anunoby is likewise. Toronto wanted like 3 first round picks. Any star wing in FA is going to want max money. And if they're in FA, it's because they want to pick their destination.. which is not going to be Cleveland.

 

[godfather]

Not sure I would truly trade him. I’ve flirted with the idea and I do agree with the wear and tear on Mobley if you do this.

I just think the Cavs need to limit their on court pairing and get them used to that next season for the playoffs.

I get that there’s more issues than just the front court — but a good reason why “Mitchland” didn’t play well was because of what was on the floor with them.

It’s not like you’re gonna go into a series and split up the backcourt, which features your 2 most dominant offensive players…

You plug in one dynamic shooting SF and that will certainly help, but you’re still going to be limited in what you can do offensively…. And quite frankly if you’re gonna give up that kinda offensive rebounding to another front court — and you’re not providing any offense AND you’re compromising the guards ability to play with space ?

Split em up… Go get me a Bobby Portis type and make Jarrett Allen Evan Mobley’s backup…

They definitely need to address the backup center. That's why in hindsight, if we never did the Mitchell trade, you could keep Allen (have him come off the bench). I don't think Allen sucks by any means. I just don't think you really want him starting in the playoffs, especially next to Mobley.

Not even saying they can NEVER play together, but them playing the bulk of the minutes together is a major problem offensively.

I don't really seeing the offense improving, if these two are going to play majority of the minutes together.

Mitchell and Garland are find offensive players, sure Issac isn't great, but even with Levert in there, the offense still is pretty bad for a reason.

JB is definitely not creative with the offense either, so that doesn't help.

I actually wonder if we could have ended up getting Bridges. No one can see the future and predict Durant would be traded.

The Nets wanted max value, but Bridges, a really good player, I'm not really sure where he fits in in their rebuild. He's 26.

Maybe Nets wanted him and would have no interest in moving him, but if they were interested, we had the ammo to do it, and wouldn't have cost us anywhere near what we gave up for Mitchell, and we'd have kept Lauri.

The team would be much better. Oh well.

 

[inliner311]

Who? This is why we jumped on Mitchell.

Star wings just don't become available. Bridges is a 2nd or 3rd option. He went for banana picks. Anunoby is likewise. Toronto wanted like 3 first round picks. Any star wing in FA is going to want max money. And if they're in FA, it's because they want to pick their destination.. which is not going to be Cleveland.

I'm not sure who it would be but I think to get the most out of this roster, you got to have one of our stars be a wing. It might take luck to get one or taking a chance at a player that could break out in a different situation. Right now we don't even have a path to getting that kind of player.

I think Mobley needs touches to build out his game and the Garland/Mitchell pairing just isn't providing him the path to develop. I also would rather assess Mitchell's value and try to recoup before it dips. Another bad playoff series is going to make his value drop alot. With JBB and the lack of ability to make other moves, it just seems like it's inevitable that we look bad again in the playoffs. Mitchell coming out the gate playing well in the regular season is going to make teams forget about the Knick series but another bad series could mark him as a bad playoff performer.

I'd much rather open up avenues to find a star wing or other moves to change this roster. There is no guarantee that Mitchell's value will peak at the same time as another star is available. If we bank those assets to use later, I think it's a better strategy to get into those trade talks. Mobley gets time to also develop while we wait.

 

[PIP]

It’s basically like pairing a Tyson Chandler style of player with a Javale McGee style of player and pairing those 2 up with an undersized backcourt, where the best playmaker (Darius) is not even handing the ball as much cause Donovan is such a dominant scorer….

But then there’s Okoro…

So let’s go Hornets a decade plus ago…

You keep Tyson in the starting lineup, you remove David West, insert McGee (which will keep it closer to the painted area)…. Keep Peja or even Posey out on the perimeter as the stretch SF….

CP3 is your playmaking all star PG and you pair him with a Monta Ellis or even a Gilbert Arenas and you’re probably suffering the same fate due to the roster structure…

 

[inliner311]

It’s basically like pairing a Tyson Chandler style of player with a Javale McGee style of player and pairing those 2 up with an undersized backcourt, where the best playmaker (Darius) is not even handing the ball as much cause Donovan is such a dominant scorer….

But then there’s Okoro…

So let’s go Hornets a decade plus ago…

You keep Tyson in the starting lineup, you remove David West, insert McGee (which will keep it closer to the painted area)…. Keep Peja or even Posey out on the perimeter as the stretch SF….

CP3 is your playmaking all star PG and you pair him with a Monta Ellis or even a Gilbert Arenas and you’re probably suffering the same fate due to the roster structure…

I'm not convinced that Mobley is just a center without giving him the development path to be a PF. JBB uses Mobley and Allen like centers. We really need to figure out what Mobley can be and I think that's the main problem right now. Last year's roster with Lauri was much more built to allow Mobley that freedom to figure it all out. JBB just didn't use that versatility to allow Mobley to get different looks.

I don't believe Mitchell and Mobley are on the same timeline so we should really focus on how we can get develop and build a roster around Mobley and Garland. Maybe getting rid of Allen forces JBB to mix how he uses Mobley and helps to develop him. I don't like making roster moves because the coach is handcuffing the team.

 

[godfather]

I'm not convinced that Mobley is just a center without giving him the development path to be a PF. JBB uses Mobley and Allen like centers. We really need to figure out what Mobley can be and I think that's the main problem right now. Last year's roster with Lauri was much more built to allow Mobley that freedom to figure it all out. JBB just didn't use that versatility to allow Mobley to get different looks.

I don't believe Mitchell and Mobley are on the same timeline so we should really focus on how we can get develop and build a roster around Mobley and Garland. Maybe getting rid of Allen forces JBB to mix how he uses Mobley and helps to develop him. I don't like making roster moves because the coach is handcuffing the team.

He's definitely a center long-term. He's not a power forward IMO. You need a stretch big next to Mobley.

 

[Jscc]

He's definitely a center long-term. He's not a power forward IMO. You need a stretch big next to Mobley.

I would prefer a stretch center like a Myles Turner while keeping Mobley at PF.

I wanted Mo Bamba at the trade deadline because we could start Mobley and JA, then stagger them with Bamba who would stretch the floor.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I would prefer a stretch center like a Myles Turner while keeping Mobley at PF.

I wanted Mo Bamba at the trade deadline because we could start Mobley and JA, then stagger them with Bamba who would stretch the floor.

See this is exactly why I'm preaching a little pragmatism.

Suggestion #1 signed a two year extension for 60 million total a couple months ago. He cannot be traded this off-season.

Suggestion number two is the last guy on the roster for the Lakers and has played a total of ten minutes in the series against the Grizzlies. The suggestion he's a sort of missing piece is a desperation move at best.

I see that you are just being solution-based. I appreciate solution-based thinking... but the most clear path to a solution is clouded by scapegoating what one big can't do well and ignores all he does well.

When Love was still on the roster, most people wanted him traded and called him useless. Yet when the Heat bumped off the Bucks, the Heat accepted his limitation and allowed him to play sparing minutes in drop coverage. They minimized the glaring hole on his game - defensive mobility - to cash in on what he can bring with offensive perimeter skills and defensive rebounding.

Simply put: A good coach can minimize the problems with a roster like Allen and Mobley being non-spacers. Bickerstaff didn't do it with Love and then didn't do it with Allen. Demanding a top 25 player like Turner or pretending a scrub doesn't have more glaring holes isn't a solution in real rubber-meets-road personnel decisions.

 

[kookoo]

See this is exactly why I'm preaching a little pragmatism.

Suggestion #1 signed a two year extension for 60 million total a couple months ago. He cannot be traded this off-season.

Suggestion number two is the last guy on the roster for the Lakers and has played a total of ten minutes in the series against the Grizzlies. The suggestion he's a sort of missing piece is a desperation move at best.

I see that you are just being solution-based. I appreciate solution-based thinking... but the most clear path to a solution is clouded by scapegoating what one big can't do well and ignores all he does well.

When Love was still on the roster, most people wanted him traded and called him useless. Yet when the Heat bumped off the Bucks, the Heat accepted his limitation and allowed him to play sparing minutes in drop coverage. They minimized the glaring hole on his game - defensive mobility - to cash in on what he can bring with offensive perimeter skills and defensive rebounding.

Simply put: A good coach can minimize the problems with a roster like Allen and Mobley being non-spacers. Bickerstaff didn't do it with Love and then didn't do it with Allen. Demanding a top 25 player like Turner or pretending a scrub doesn't have more glaring holes isn't a solution in real rubber-meets-road personnel decisions.

We wanted him traded. Meaning a piece would come in to replace him. We literally let him walk and didn't find anyone to add to the roster to replicate his skill. No rebounding off the bench at all. I personally am more upset about that than the fact we bought him out.

 

[CavsKermit]

I'm not convinced that Mobley is just a center without giving him the development path to be a PF. JBB uses Mobley and Allen like centers. We really need to figure out what Mobley can be and I think that's the main problem right now. Last year's roster with Lauri was much more built to allow Mobley that freedom to figure it all out. JBB just didn't use that versatility to allow Mobley to get different looks.

I don't believe Mitchell and Mobley are on the same timeline so we should really focus on how we can get develop and build a roster around Mobley and Garland. Maybe getting rid of Allen forces JBB to mix how he uses Mobley and helps to develop him. I don't like making roster moves because the coach is handcuffing the team.

It's either Murphy+ from N.O. or Bridges+ from the Nets here. You're not getting Tatum. That's pretty much the list of promising young wings.