John Hollinger's Cavaliers playoff post mortem

[HammerGold]

I don't think Koby thought that Lauri was going to be this good. It just worked out that way and doesn't look good for him

 

[PIP]

good point.....i dont know...i was just trying to cut altman some slack but possibly youre right. myb some bird rihgts have some value as well.

fuk....

if it is four then the cavs should just fire altman after this seasons free agency if they dont get lucky cuz theyer not going to do jack shit without a 35 minute b-level guy at the three in addition to finding at least b-level replacements for both wade and rubio.

six first rounders for a guy who ended up not really fitting the timeline nor the expectations?....one bad season of playoff games can be chalked up to an anomaly....two is a concern if not major concern especially at 50mm/year.

and what if donovan has three consecutive bad playoffs?...at 30 from the 3? and he wants 50mm?

thats not a top 10 player... six first round picks for a guy who is statsitically a bit better than zach levine in teh regular season?..levine a guy who can arguably play the three later in his career whereas mitchell is a 2 from here on out?

the more you dig into this the uglier it gets

Yes it is…

 

[cavsfever]

Lol Dejounte Murray was traded for three first round picks so can we at least agree Lauri was worth three FRPs?

 

[gambler]

I don't think Koby thought that Lauri was going to be this good. It just worked out that way and doesn't look good for him

thats the problem...koby doesnt do a lot of thinking...from emotionally cutting open employees lockers to buying out kevin love....just complete ass moves.

if guys like us are putting this shit together while drinking beers whats the rest of the league thinking?

fukn a....danny ainge just raped his ass......twice.

 

[The Oi]

thats the problem...koby doesnt do a lot of thinking...from emotionally cutting open employees lockers to buying out kevin love....just complete ass moves.

if guys like us are putting this shit together while drinking beers whats the rest of the league thinking?

fukn a....danny ainge just raped his ass......twice.

“Doesn’t do a lot of thinking”
“Emotionally cutting open employee lockers”
“Raped his ass.”

You have an interesting way of speaking.

 

[inliner311]

I don't think Koby thought that Lauri was going to be this good. It just worked out that way and doesn't look good for him

For an organization who hypes up the potential progress players make over the summer, they really miss the ball on Lauri. He probably took one of the biggest leaps out any in the Koby era but they completely missed it.

 

[gambler]

Lol Dejounte Murray was traded for three first round picks so can we at least agree Lauri was worth three FRPs?

fuk...murray completely unproven in the post season as well prior to the trade.

Dejounte Murray Career Stats - NBA Postseason - ESPN

www.espn.com

so there is not even that angle to bring down lauris value to two first round picks.....so arguably he is worth four and you take into consideration that he can do the 3, 4 and myb some spot five?

three positions to murrays two?

 

[gambler]

“Doesn’t do a lot of thinking”
“Emotionally cutting open employee lockers”
“Raped his ass.”

You have an interesting way of speaking.

i tell it like it is....

now what about my ant idea?....eliminates a lot of red tape with those imported spiders...cheaper , too

 

[The Oi]

i tell it like it is....

now what about my ant idea?....eliminates a lot of red tape with those imported spiders...cheaper , too

I missed it. Replying

 

[inliner311]

fuk...murray completely unproven in the post season as well prior to the trade.

Dejounte Murray Career Stats - NBA Postseason - ESPN

www.espn.com

so there is not even that angle to bring down lauris value to two first round picks.....so arguably he is worth four and you take into consideration that he can do the 3, 4 and myb some spot five?

three positions to murrays two?

I think the Hawks were projected to be better than they have been and those late 1st round picks are worth considerably less something in the middle of the 1st round especially to a team that has liked to draft international players like the Spurs. The first round pick pay scale makes it hard to draft and bring over a player after like the 20th pick. It's why Koby had to trade down for two 2nd round picks to get Cedi and he was basically happy to burn that other pick on a guy they knew they would probably cut. It's also why you see a lot of trading out or down or just picks getting sold in that area.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Mitchell's points per shot attempt plummeted in the playoffs, from 125 points per 100 shots in the regular season to 104 against the Knicks. Also, his turnover percentage increased from 10% to 13%. No question the Knicks effectively game planned him, especially after he went for 38 points in Game 1.

At least this series exposed the Cavs flaws - brutally and utterly. The front office knows exactly what areas need to be shored up if they didn't already. They can't get away with playing a lineup that includes three players who can't score beyond five feet, no matter how good the defense is.

Putting LeVert in for Okoro helps, but it still leaves them with three guards, a skinny power forward, and a skinny center so they are really vulnerable on the defensive glass, especially with their bigs contesting so many outside shots instead of getting in rebounding position. Not to mention that even with Garland, Mitchell, and LeVert on the floor they still have two bigs who can't score outside the restricted zone, or at least not often enough.

Hollinger says the Cavs have the resources to make some roster moves to balance things out. Mobley and Rubio should both be better next year. Okoro will keep plugging away at his 3-point shooting. We'll see if the combination of internal improvement at 2-3 spots and a solid personnel move or two can get them over the hump and into the EC Final Four.

It's nice to read a measured analysis that doesn't mirror a major depressive spiral. Since this thread is supposed to stem from Hollinger's equally measured article, this is a fair criticism without some sort of tantrum.

The Cavs press conference to announce the Rubio free agency signing certainly hinted that the team isn't going to mortgage the future and go all in. They spoke of how Rubio will be working his way back this season in hopes for better returns later in the contract. Similar language was used when they essentially sat out a seller's market at the deadline and signed Danny Green.

The Mitchell trade is indeed an above market offer. Some fans will point to the lack of depth the trade caused, however I don't see how an informed fan can blame Altman for winning a bidding war in a seller's market. The other option is paying above market rate for a lesser player, like the Knicks chose to do with Hart.

It's hard to identify where to focus your frustration when it's the market not a person who adjusts value of a trade, but here we are. As the Cavs figure out how to build up the depth around their core, I don't lose sight of how many basketball fans who aren't Cavs supporters like our future.

 

[HammerGold]

It's nice to read a measured analysis that doesn't mirror a major depressive spiral. Since this thread is supposed to stem from Hollinger's equally measured article, this is a fair criticism without some sort of tantrum.

The Cavs press conference to announce the Rubio free agency signing certainly hinted that the team isn't going to mortgage the future and go all in. They spoke of how Rubio will be working his way back this season in hopes for better returns later in the contract. Similar language was used when they essentially sat out a seller's market at the deadline and signed Danny Green.

The Mitchell trade is indeed an above market offer. Some fans will point to the lack of depth the trade caused, however I don't see how an informed fan can blame Altman for winning a bidding war in a seller's market. The other option is paying above market rate for a lesser player, like the Knicks chose to do with Hart.

It's hard to identify where to focus your frustration when it's the market not a person who adjusts value of a trade, but here we are. As the Cavs figure out how to build up the depth around their core, I don't lose sight of how many basketball fans who aren't Cavs supporters like our future.

Is there not a lot of pressure on the Cavs to win now to keep Mitchell? I doubt he's on Koby's slow incremental timeliness so the future is pretty much now

 

[Randolphkeys]

Is there not a lot of pressure on the Cavs to win now to keep Mitchell? I doubt he's on Koby's slow incremental timeliness so the future is pretty much now

If you want to examine what a "win now" trade deadline looks like, check out the Lakers:


The Lakers knew that their only chance in the next six years to be competitive is to give LeBron depth now. So they surrendered a number of future picks to reinvent half of the rotation. Altman is simply not making "get better now at any price" moves outside of Mitchell. The off-season moves haven't begun, let's see what he has planned.

 

[Dr No]

As the Cavs figure out how to build up the depth around their core, I don't lose sight of how many basketball fans who aren't Cavs supporters like our future.

It is no surprise that after that showing against the Knicks people went straight to "the sky is falling". But it isn't. The Knicks were a bad matchup for us all season, and that didn't change in the playoffs. We needed to get into the playoffs to reveal our weaknesses and we did. We saw very clearly that we can't have this many non-shooters on the floor at once and that our 2 small guards create defensive problems that even Allen and Mobley can't cover. I still have serious doubts about JBB. He is lacking in both X's & O's and roster management. Has Altman hit a homerun on every decision. No, but who does? But looking at our situation as clearly as I can, we are still in pretty good shape in that we have lots of assets. We have a legitimate top 20 player in the League who is only 26. We have a still up and coming point guard who is only 23. We have a dominant defensive player who may become much more as he is only 21. Allen is a very good player who just turned 25. Then we have others on the roster who have value as either trade pieces or role players here. LeVert has value. Okoro has value, if for no other reason than he is still young and athletic. Cedi has value, Wade has value. In a playoffs that is being dominated largely by guys in their upper 20's and 30's, we are still very young. Would it be nice to have some 1st round draft picks? Sure. But we are not locked into bad contracts with old, declining, players. We have players that we want and we have players that other teams want. Altman has options to work with over the next couple of years. It isn't perfect, but the sky isn't falling either.

 

[cavsfever]

If you want to examine what a "win now" trade deadline looks like, check out the Lakers:


The Lakers knew that their only chance in the next six years to be competitive is to give LeBron depth now. So they surrendered a number of future picks to reinvent half of the rotation. Altman is simply not making "get better now at any price" moves outside of Mitchell. The off-season moves haven't begun, let's see what he has planned.

If not then why not? Once we made the Mitchell trade then the clock was ticking and it became foolish to hold off any winning moves you could make. The Mitchell trade was itself a “win now” move and commitment , you can’t do that sort of stuff halfway.

Also, the Lakers trade deadline was phenomenally successful, it seems like an example to follow not something to avoid?