Jonas Valanciunas ??

[Rist77]

Chandler averaged 26 & 13 with 7 blocks per game his senior year in high school.

nbadraft.net scored Tyson a 107, with 11's in athleticism and potential, even gave him a 9 for his jumper and 8 for his post skills, and compared his upside to Rasheed Wallace. Tyson was super-hyped. otoh, they gave Jonas a 93 and compared him to Spencer Hawes and Primoz Bezic.

As Chandler demonstrated, being one of the best players in your draft even with exceptional length and athleticism guarantees nothing when the guys you're being compared to aren't all that good.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/tyson-chandler
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jonas-valanciunas

I'd love to compare what Givony said about Chandler back at the time he was drafted, but he has a funny habit of flushing out old content. Imagine that...

Although I disagree with basically every comparison NBAdraft.net has ever given, you do make a valid point. Imo, Chandler was a better prospect than V is, and Chandler still had to improve a lot to become a solid NBA center.

On a side note, one thing that seems to be mentioned a lot is how well he moves. He doesn't move like Chandler, Beindrins, or even Noah did at or near the same age. His body movements almost mimic those of Andrew Bynum. I don't know how well that will translate to the NBA considering he's a good 40-50 lbs less than Bynum. Either way, like any project C, he's going to have to get a lot better. He'll either have to develop a bunch of post moves like Bynum did (although Bynum had Kareem to work with), or he's going to have to put on 30-40 or so lbs without losing his hustle/motor or free throw touch for him to be worthy of getting good minutes in the NBA. I don't dislike Jonas at all, but I also don't see all hype currently surrounding him.



Note: I'd be saying these exact same things even if the Cavs had drafted him.

 

[Kypus]

EDIT: Nothing new, just a retweet of the MVP:

During the FIBA Under-19 tournament, Jonas Valanciunas earned MVP honors while averaging 23.0 points, 13.9 rebounds and 3.2 blocks.
Valanciunas made 60% of his FGs and 81% of his FT%. His upside is tremendous and if he puts on some weight by 2012-13 he'll be contributing immediately as a rookie for the Raptors.

http://twitter.com/#!/WFNYScott/status/90167066094608384

 

[billmac91]

Chandler averaged 26 & 13 with 7 blocks per game his senior year in high school.

nbadraft.net scored Tyson a 107, with 11's in athleticism and potential, even gave him a 9 for his jumper and 8 for his post skills, and compared his upside to Rasheed Wallace. Tyson was super-hyped. otoh, they gave Jonas a 93 and compared him to Spencer Hawes and Primoz Bezic.

As Chandler demonstrated, being one of the best players in your draft even with exceptional length and athleticism guarantees nothing when the guys you're being compared to aren't all that good.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/tyson-chandler
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jonas-valanciunas

I'd love to compare what Givony said about Chandler back at the time he was drafted, but he has a funny habit of flushing out old content. Imagine that...

I trust my own eyes....Spencer Hawes is an awful comparison, so that's almost a non-starter.

 

[Zen]

Raptors lottery pick Jonas Valanciunas carried Lithuania over Serbia 85-67 at the FIBA U19 World Championships in Latvia, scoring 36 points, adding eight rebounds, three blocks and three steals.

Valanciunas has now led his country to the gold medal at the European U16 and U18 tournaments and now, the world U19, earning tournament MVP each time, believed to be an unprecedented feat.

He led this event in scoring (23 per game), rebounding (13.9), blocks (3.2), double-doubles (seven in nine games for 7-2 Lithuania) and was second in field goal percentage to Canada’s Dyshawn Pierre.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...Valanciunas_Wins_Tournament_MVP#ixzz1Rl6Wpv83

 

[wuck]

So, I'm not clear on something. Do folks who wanted Jonas to get picked by the Cavs want to see him succeed in the end, so that Grant and the Cavs will have been wrong (and Jonas backers can have been right)? Or do you want Jonas eventually to fail and Tristan Thompson to succeed, so that Grant and the Cavs will have made the right move in the end?

I hoped the Cavs would pick Jonas because he was a promising center (and harder to find). But at this point, I would prefer that he never comes to the NBA, or comes to the NBA and fails spectacularly, so that I don't have to think about the 2011 draft in the future. In the meantime, because Tristan is a Cav, I want him to exceed all expectations.

I can't tell if some of you are delighted because Jonas is performing well (which proves what exactly?) or if you're just prolonging the agony. I'm just curious what you're looking for here. I find it amusing, actually, that this thread is still going strong. It was an extremely underperforming thread until a few weeks before the draft.

 

[Jon]

Stop this absolutely certain bullshit. The only thing absolutely certain is they passed up a center for another PF that can't shoot. When you claim you grabbed your two highest rated guys 1 and 4, you're obviously lying. If they really had him rated so fucking highly, then they have Hollinger on the payroll and were listening to him solely for drafting advice. You know who was a better ranked player based on Hollingers ratings? Michael Sweetney. You know who was ranked lower than Sweetney and TT? Bosh. I've had enough of this advanced stats bullshit.

Houston for all it's advanced metrics didn't win a thing. It took Dallas how many years to keep blowing up the team before it finally won? Yet another team that relies way too heavily on advanced stats.

When advanced stats don't hold up to the eye test, there's a problem.

That's a lot of hyperbole, but I just thought I'd comment about the "eye test" ... because according to the "eye test", TT reportedly blew everyone out of the water he was put up against in the workouts. That includes DWill and Kanter, but alas not JV to my knowledge. Still, it's interesting that Kanter was in the list because he's the guy with the offensive game that's supposedly light years ahead of JV's, and those guys had been the top two competitors in the Euro youth tournaments.

You've been hyped on this kid and you bought it hook, line, and sinker ... and so what?

Every year draft pundits declare someone to be a can't miss talent, and then they miss.

This is a European youth tournament. It's not even the summer league. The US didn't come close to sending their best team - just a bunch of high schoolers, and they still beat Jonas and the much more experienced Lithuanian team playing their brand of basketball.

I watched some of the highlights of that game on Youtube, and they showed one play where Jonas busted a move and threw the ball over Patrick Young who is 2" or 3" shorter and just stood there with his hands up. Nice! ... but then on the next replay, Young had the ball, put his body to Jonas who was knocked out of the way, and Young threw down an emphatic dunk.

I'm thinking Jonas is going to have to deal with other 7 footers in the NBA and isn't going to enjoy the opportunity to just dunk over someone's head and on the flip side, he's also going to face plenty of C's who will gladly knock him around if he can't add enough strength to stand his ground.

IMO, this draft is filled with a lot of kids you'd love to take with the 25th pick in the draft. Sadly most of them went top-12. Jonas is *not* a super athlete or a super leaper. He's just another intriguing prospect we over-hyped because we thought he was going to be our guy.

 

[Jon]

I trust my own eyes....Spencer Hawes is an awful comparison, so that's almost a non-starter.

I'm not going to guess how they arrived at that evaluation, but they've certainly made (more than) their share of blunders. Mostly, what I thought was interesting was the relative comparison to Chandler. It's too easy to look at what Chandler is now and forget what he was hyped up to be coming in to the league. I don't think anybody has Jonas hyped up that high.

 

[Tornicade]

I dont understand a tournament where the two teams with the best record in the tournament play each other for 5th place and both the finalist lost to the 5th place team.

 

[Wulfgar1224]

So, I'm not clear on something. Do folks who wanted Jonas to get picked by the Cavs want to see him succeed in the end, so that Grant and the Cavs will have been wrong (and Jonas backers can have been right)? Or do you want Jonas eventually to fail and Tristan Thompson to succeed, so that Grant and the Cavs will have made the right move in the end?

I hoped the Cavs would pick Jonas because he was a promising center (and harder to find). But at this point, I would prefer that he never comes to the NBA, or comes to the NBA and fails spectacularly, so that I don't have to think about the 2011 draft in the future. In the meantime, because Tristan is a Cav, I want him to exceed all expectations.

I can't tell if some of you are delighted because Jonas is performing well (which proves what exactly?) or if you're just prolonging the agony. I'm just curious what you're looking for here. I find it amusing, actually, that this thread is still going strong. It was an extremely underperforming thread until a few weeks before the draft.

Well, I want the Cavs the make smart moves in their rebuild so that they'll have a good team and potential title contender. I don't think drafting Thompson at 4 over Jonas V was very smart. Jonas V is a higher ceiling guy IMO at a much tougher position to find talent. Perhaps Thompson will develop an inside scoring game and become an All Star. I hope so. But, I'm skeptical about that.

As for Jonas V, it really doesn't matter to me if he flops or succeeds since he isn't a Cav. I still think he should've been the pick however. If the Cavs didn't take him because of the buyout situation, then that was short sighted on their part. If they didn't take him because they had Thompson higher on their board, then I have to question their scouting ability.

 

[Jon]

If they didn't take him because they had Thompson higher on their board, then I have to question their scouting ability.

Why? Neither has done anything in the NBA. Grant wasn't trying to pick the guy who'd perform the best in the Eurobasket U19 tourney.

 

[wuck]

As for Jonas V, it really doesn't matter to me if he flops or succeeds since he isn't a Cav. I still think he should've been the pick however.

If Jonas flops, will you still think he should have been the Cavs pick?

I'm not asking to be a jerk. I have mixed feelings about it myself. I thought he was worth the risk, even if he ended up flopping. But now I am hoping that he flops completely and Tristan performs well, so that I can feel that at least things worked out well in the end for the Cavs ("thank goodness they didn't blow that pick on someone who is has retired or is back playing in Europe").

 

[th1]

[video=youtube;lCMXxQGhGzQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCMXxQGhGzQ[/video]

 

[Jon]

But now I am hoping that he flops completely and Tristan performs well, so that I can feel that at least things worked out well in the end for the Cavs ("thank goodness they didn't blow that pick on someone who is has retired or is back playing in Europe").

I don't feel like Jonas needs to flop to justify the fact we took TT. The problem here is we just don't understand Chris Grant's thought process enough. I believe you judge people on what they say they're going to do, and if they do what they say. At the moment, all we have is Grant and Scott's word that we had TT rated higher, but we don't know exactly what parts of their game they think will or won't convey to the NBA.

What we don't want to consider is that they may both turn out to be journeyman in the league that fill certain roles or come off the bench for their team ... but if you look at it that way, then you stop thinking of these guys as answers, and instead look at who can better fill a hole or serve a role.

For instance, a few years back Jeff Foster and Ron Artest were both productive/useful players - heck, they could both start for a lot of teams, but if you could remove Ron's baggage you'd probably take him 10 times out of 10 over the "true center". Not because of his rebounding or shooting or passing, but because he had the ability to lock-down some of the best offensive players and guard almost any position. Foster does a solid job defending the paint, but he's not at that top echelon like Dwight, Ben, KG, so IMO you'd take Ron Ron.

If TT can effectively defend multiple positions, he could be very valuable. Heck, the best players in the league typically take whoever you put on them out of their offensive game, so if TT can exert energy on D, slow down one of the best opposing players, and collect garbage on O, it's not as bad a trade off as it might seem.

 

[Lee]

One thing that doesnt seem to get mentioned enough in the comparing Thompson's u19 performance to Jonas's is that Thompson was a year younger than Jonas and was going into his senior year of basketball. Jonas has played 2 year of pro basketball in Europe. You would expect Jonas to perform much better because he is playing eruo style of ball (something he is familure with, canada plays our style), he is a year older, and he has 2 years of pro experience going into the tourney. Remember, Thompson played for Canada 2 years ago, not just 1 year ago.

Basically its like comparing a high school Jr, to a kid who just finished up his rookie year in the NBA. You just cant compare.

 

[Man Called X]

If Jonas flops, will you still think he should have been the Cavs pick?

I'm not asking to be a jerk. I have mixed feelings about it myself. I thought he was worth the risk, even if he ended up flopping. But now I am hoping that he flops completely and Tristan performs well, so that I can feel that at least things worked out well in the end for the Cavs ("thank goodness they didn't blow that pick on someone who is has retired or is back playing in Europe").

I personally want Jonas to be the next greatest center, and TT to be washed out of the league in 3 years. At least if that occurs, Grant will have lost his job, and I won't have to hear any more bullshit and about TT just wowed people in workouts. Workouts are not game settings. Seen plenty of game footage of TT to be not be impressed.

But hey, get back to me when TT can hit a jumper. Because so many people didn't want Jonas because he "didn't shoot jumpers"