Jonas Valanciunas ??

[Wulfgar1224]

Why? Neither has done anything in the NBA. Grant wasn't trying to pick the guy who'd perform the best in the Eurobasket U19 tourney.

The one argument that Grant defenders have right now is the element of time. Grant's decisions haven't had time to bear fruit. So, far he has an empty slate as far as that goes. Thompson may turn out to be a stud and Jonas V. may never contribute in the NBA. That is possible. But, the consensus was that Jonas V. was rated higher on most scouts and teams boards. He has the higher upside at a tougher position to fill. That's why I question their ability. I think the Cavs had to take Jonas V there. I could be proven to be dead wrong. We'll see how it plays out over time.

If Jonas flops, will you still think he should have been the Cavs pick?

I'm not asking to be a jerk. I have mixed feelings about it myself. I thought he was worth the risk, even if he ended up flopping. But now I am hoping that he flops completely and Tristan performs well, so that I can feel that at least things worked out well in the end for the Cavs ("thank goodness they didn't blow that pick on someone who is has retired or is back playing in Europe").

I didn't take offense to your remarks. So, no worries. Obviously, with the benefit of hindsight, we can all be proven wrong. My contention is that Jonas V. has higher upside at a tougher position to fill. So, given the information that we have now, yes I think he was the pick at 4. My personal opinion is that the Cavs were scared of his buyout situation and went in a different direction. To me, that is short sighted. But, if he flames out and Thompson develops into a stud, then Grant will be right and I'll be wrong.

As for Jonas V., I don't care if he fails or succeeds now since he isn't a Cav. I'll root for Thompson to develop an offensive game and become a solid 4 in the league.

 

[Smooth]

I haven't read the whole thread but skimming through it, it seems like people are in denial about what Valanciunas is doing... If JV was drafted by the Cavs, people would be slobbering over his performance and what he's doing... But since he wasn't, it seems like people are trying to knock down what he's done...

His performance certainly doesn't 100% validate what he will be in the NBA but considering he's done very well in all the FIBA u-19/18/17, etc., leads me to believe he's legit...

 

[Wulfgar1224]

I haven't read the whole thread but skimming through it, it seems like people are in denial about what Valanciunas is doing... If JV was drafted by the Cavs, people would be slobbering over his performance and what he's doing... But since he wasn't, it seems like people are trying to knock down what he's done...

His performance certainly doesn't 100% validate what he will be in the NBA but considering he's done very well in all the FIBA u-19/18/17, etc., leads me to believe he's legit...

You're right about that Smooth. It's human nature. No one wants the team that they support to look bad. When Jonas V. performs well, the Cavs look bad. Again, time will tell. My opinion is that Jonas V. will be a better player in the league than Thompson.

 

[Brandname]

Man, looking at those highlights makes me thing that Jonas could really have a successful transition to the NBA. He seems to play a pretty aggressive, strong game, which is a bit unexpected. Of course he's not playing against NBA players right now, but in an era where the C position is weak, he could be seeing some real success if he puts on some weight and works on his range a bit. I like the effort he seems to give defensively, blocking shots and contesting with his long reach.

I'm one of the ones who would have preferred we draft him over TT. I want him to succeed in the NBA, not because it will have proven me to be right (that doesn't matter to me at this point), but simply because unless I really dislike a player, I really want him to have success transitioning into the NBA. The more quality players in the league, the better product we get to watch. Hopefully TT becomes a very successful NBA player as well. In either case, I'll be watching his development to see how he adjusts.

 

[NarlCavs]

It's not only about Thompson vs. Valanciunas for me. Another big factor in this decision is how Grant and the Cavs fill the C spot for the long term in the next few seasons. We'll have to see when and how they get another opportunity to do that and if they can do it.
Thompson is a solid prospect but PF's at his level are available in every draft. I haven't seen anything in his game that would make me feel he was a must have player who I had to draft high. Nice player who should have a long career but I didn't see that he was a special talent when I watched him play.

A lot of the questioning or criticism of this pick is based on position each player plays. One is fairly easy to fill while the other is pretty difficult to fill. You don't take a lesser talent because he plays C but most had Valanciunas as the better prospect.

I want Thompson to be everything and more that the Cavs think he is since he's now a member of this franchise. This is a decision adds some pressure to Grant and will be a major indicator of his drafting ability as GM.

 

[Lee]

You're right about that Smooth. It's human nature. No one wants the team that they support to look bad. When Jonas V. performs well, the Cavs look bad. Again, time will tell. My opinion is that Jonas V. will be a better player in the league than Thompson.

I wonder how much his contract situation came into play though. He wont be available this year for sure, but does he turn into another splitter type. Splitter was a 2 time MVP in Europe, originally in the 2007 draft, but contract situation kept him from coming over intil last year. Now that he is here, he is 26 years old (not old, but old for a rookie). He has shown some ability, especially for a late first rounder, but not sure if he ends up being worthy of the 4th overall pick which is what Jonas is.

All I am saying is sure I might be in denial, but one thing no one can deny is how big of a gamble Euro bigs can be. Some just kill it over there in Europe and come over hear and are very pedestrian. Its a huge risk that Grant didnt want to take.(and yes I know Splitter is South American, but he was a star in Europe)

 

[Wulfgar1224]

I wonder how much his contract situation came into play though. He wont be available this year for sure, but does he turn into another splitter type. Splitter was a 2 time MVP in Europe, originally in the 2007 draft, but contract situation kept him from coming over intil last year. Now that he is here, he is 26 years old (not old, but old for a rookie). He has shown some ability, especially for a late first rounder, but not sure if he ends up being worthy of the 4th overall pick which is what Jonas is.

All I am saying is sure I might be in denial, but one thing no one can deny is how big of a gamble Euro bigs can be. Some just kill it over there in Europe and come over hear and are very pedestrian. Its a huge risk that Grant didnt want to take.(and yes I know Splitter is South American, but he was a star in Europe)

I'm in complete agreement on the buyout situation affecting the Cavs. But, with Irving it tow, I think the Cavs were in a position to wait for Jonas V due to his upside and yes, gamble on a Euro big. After all, no one is expecting this Cavs team to make a serious playoff run for a few years. I think it was short sighted of them. I just don't see much upside with Thompson. He should be a good rebounder and defender. But, I doubt he develops into much of a scoring PF.

 

[Snowblind]

I wonder how much his contract situation came into play though. He wont be available this year for sure, but does he turn into another splitter type. Splitter was a 2 time MVP in Europe, originally in the 2007 draft, but contract situation kept him from coming over intil last year. Now that he is here, he is 26 years old (not old, but old for a rookie). He has shown some ability, especially for a late first rounder, but not sure if he ends up being worthy of the 4th overall pick which is what Jonas is.

All I am saying is sure I might be in denial, but one thing no one can deny is how big of a gamble Euro bigs can be. Some just kill it over there in Europe and come over hear and are very pedestrian. Its a huge risk that Grant didnt want to take.(and yes I know Splitter is South American, but he was a star in Europe)

I thought a day or 2 after the draft Jonas signed that euroleague deal to be able to come over after a year? Plus, he's said that he wants to get the NBA as quick as possible. That has to count for something.

 

[Scholar]

I thought a day or 2 after the draft Jonas signed that euroleague deal to be able to come over after a year? Plus, he's said that he wants to get the NBA as quick as possible. That has to count for something.

Actually, what he really did was sign a deal to become a free agent in a year. There is absolutely nothing binding him to coming to the NBA. Of course, it was in his best interests to enter the draft, and proclaim that he wishes to come over to the NBA, as it sets a "minimum" salary expectation in negotiations with European clubs. He can still always choose to sign with Toronto. But, if some European GM is as impressed with Jonas's performances as some of you posters, he could well receive an offer that is simply too much higher for him to join the NBA.

Remember, this has become a contract year for Jonas with the buyout. Expect him to put his every effort into maximizing his value on the court to try to lure some GM to give him a large contract. Also, keep in mind, that one of the items the owners were trying to get was a reduction of the rookie scale. How much that is or if it even occurs is very much in the air at this time. But, it is still out there. And, it is something that had to be considered when the number 4 pick came up. You can all pretend that it is meaningless. But, it isn't.

In the end, it wasn't whether he could get the buyout done. The issue was always if he'll actually sign with the club that drafted him if he was offered a larger contract in Europe. Remember, all it will take is just one GM for him to end up resigning in Europe.

 

[Jon]

I haven't read the whole thread but skimming through it, it seems like people are in denial about what Valanciunas is doing... If JV was drafted by the Cavs, people would be slobbering over his performance and what he's doing... But since he wasn't, it seems like people are trying to knock down what he's done...

We'd be eating it up just like we'd be eating it up if he was killing it in summer league, but most of us would still readily admit that it was nothing other than a positive sign.

His performance certainly doesn't 100% validate what he will be in the NBA but considering he's done very well in all the FIBA u-19/18/17, etc., leads me to believe he's legit...

It should lead you to believe that he's not illegit...

What has he shown in these games that we haven't already seen?

And when did he face anything similar to a challenge for his level?

Didn't JJ go nuts in some of the summer league games nailing jump shots left and right? Some predictor that was ...

 

[Lee]

I'm in complete agreement on the buyout situation affecting the Cavs. But, with Irving it tow, I think the Cavs were in a position to wait for Jonas V due to his upside and yes, gamble on a Euro big. After all, no one is expecting this Cavs team to make a serious playoff run for a few years. I think it was short sighted of them. I just don't see much upside with Thompson. He should be a good rebounder and defender. But, I doubt he develops into much of a scoring PF.

I agree that I might have gambled too. But its easy to say over the internet that we would gamble. For all the Splitters, Darkos, etc out there, very few eurp big men are effective without a jump shot. To this point, only Andy and Marc Gasol come to mind (yes I know, Brazil is in South America), more often than not the fail or end up as average players.

I think we hit a homerun with Irving and could afford the gamble myself, but we were not making the calls and I can see it from Grant's point too. You almost know what Tristan will become. He will be a solid starting defensive pf who controls the paint and gets easy buckets around the rim. Hopefully he will pull his ft numbers to 60%, but anything more or developing a jumper is not realistic.

I think the problem most have with the selection is that Tristan might be the safer pick, but he also doesnt have nearly the upside. If you play the pure numbers game, Tristan is your pick, But if you are willing to swing and miss to see if you can hit a homerun, Jonas was the pick. Most of us would gamble, Grant decided to take the safe pick.

 

[Triumph36]

I'm one of the ones who would have preferred we draft him over TT. I want him to succeed in the NBA, not because it will have proven me to be right (that doesn't matter to me at this point), but simply because unless I really dislike a player, I really want him to have success transitioning into the NBA. The more quality players in the league, the better product we get to watch. Hopefully TT becomes a very successful NBA player as well. In either case, I'll be watching his development to see how he adjusts.

+1

Jonas seems like a hard worker with a good head on his shoulders, so I hope he succeeds. I'm not going to want a player to fail just because the Cavs weren't smart enough to pick them. Plus, the NBA needs all the good Cs it can get.

If Jonas flops and/or TT turns into an All-Star (lololol) or whatever, I'll still believe that Jonas should've been the pick at #4.

 

[Smooth]

For one comparing Summer League success and FIBA tournaments is two different animals..

For two, using the buyout excuse seems like a crutch to me with all the info pre-draft of Valanciunas only likely missing one year and with him admitting the NBA is where he wants to play ASAP...

 

[Man Called X]

It's at this point that I'm just hoping for a Toronto Raptors contraction.

 

[xprt]

[video=youtube;9Oehdg6zJGA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Oehdg6zJGA&feature=player_embedded[/video]
Jonas highlights from U19 Playoffs round.