Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[cavsfever]

Love has been up and down against the Warriors in the Finals, but he's had some very good playoff performances in the EC playoffs. E.g. games 5 and 6 against Toronto two years ago. I think in general and overall he has performed somewhat better in the playoffs than the regular season.

 

[fan0283]

Would also like to say it's getting a bit tiring seeing his fans throwing our other players under the bus to cover his limitations

TT has been blamed because his man doubles Love. Wouldn't that mean TT is free under the basket for a dunk? It's no one's fault Love has tunnel vision when he's backing down his man

Kyrie was once blamed for allowing drives and not protecting Love on D when it's the frontcourt player who should be protecting the backcourt player and not the other way round

LeBron has been blamed for god knows whatever reason.

Lue/Blatt are the only guys you can blame for underutilising Love. Even at that it hasn't actually been proven that designing an offense around Love's game is appropriate for a championship contender

 

[Lee]

Love is a 18/11 guy, that is who he is.

His numbers were inflated on a bad Minny team, but on a good team he is still a good scorer who is one of the best outside shooting big men and one of the best rebounders in the NBA.

He is a fringe all star and a very good player.

If you expect Love to be a top 10 player ever, then you will be disappointed, but if you think of love as a top 30 player then you have a more realistic view of who he is.

i dont get the Love hate, he is much better than most are giving credit and people act like no players have weaknesses. He isnt a MVP candidate nor will he ever be, but he is a way above average player because of his rebounding and ability to shoot from outside as a big man.

 

[Benedict_Boozer]

I am still of the mindset that Love would thrive and produce next to the right big, we need to find a 5 man with athleticism who can protect the rim. We are asking him to be something he is not, shouldn't be surprised he is having some ups and downs.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Kyrie was once blamed for allowing drives and not protecting Love on D when it's the frontcourt player who should be protecting the backcourt player and not the other way round

I disagree. The primary responsibility to stop dribble penetration from the perimeter is on the perimeter defenders themselves. A defensive, rim protecting center (which isn't the position for which Love was acquired) is there to help out on occasional/rare lapses.

Or to put it differently, it was Kyrie's job to guard his own man, and Love's job to guard his own man. Your formulation gives to Love the primary responsibility for defending both his man, and Kyrie's.

 

[fan0283]

I disagree. The primary responsibility to stop dribble penetration from the perimeter is on the perimeter defenders themselves. A defensive, rim protecting center (which isn't the position for which Love was acquired) is there to help out on occasional/rare lapses.

Or to put it differently, it was Kyrie's job to guard his own man, and Love's job to guard his own man. Your formulation gives to Love the primary responsibility for defending both his man, and Kyrie's.

The frontcourt positions are very burdensome defensively. They play in the hotzone every of the opponent's players is trying to drive into. They guard their man and are expected to help rotate to cover the entire paint zone by virtue of their proximity to the basket. That's different from saying their primary assignment is to cover two players.

https://www.thesportster.com/basketball/the-8-best-and-7-worst-nba-frontcourts

Between the backcourt and frontcourt, the most important of the two, especially on the defensive side of the court, is the frontcourt because it features the players that are going to be closest to the basket on both ends of the floor, at almost all times. They grab more rebounds, land more blocks, and get a better chance at the easy tip-in buckets because they are so close to the goal. They have a responsibility to protect the paint on defense, meaning the opponent should not be able to get on the goal, or even close to it.

Do you really want to argue the defensive duties of the frontcourt in basketball. These are age old principles. It's why most defensive anchors are bigmen. Of course this doesn't absolve the backcourt of their defensive duties but even the best perimeter defenders will get blown by several times a game

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Do you really want to argue the defensive duties of the frontcourt in basketball.

Sure! Let's go back to what you said that started all this:

Would also like to say it's getting a bit tiring seeing his fans throwing our other players under the bus to cover his limitations.... Kyrie was once blamed for allowing drives and not protecting Love on D when it's the frontcourt player who should be protecting the backcourt player and not the other way round.

Nobody ever threw Kyrie under the bus for not covering Love's man, so we'll skip that red herring. Kyrie was blamed for dribble penetration by guards from the perimeter, right?

Your complaint is that Kyrie was unfairly thrown under the bus when his man blew by his matador defense, and frontcourt players (which would include Lebron, Love, and Tristan Thompson) failed to bail his no-defense ass out.

So rather than blaming Kyrie, we should instead be blaming Love (but presumably not blaming starting center TT or Lebron). That about sum it up?

 

[fan0283]

Sure! Let's go back to what you said that started all this:



Nobody ever threw Kyrie under the bus for not covering Love's man, so we'll skip that red herring. Kyrie was blamed for dribble penetration by guards from the perimeter, right?

Your complaint is that Kyrie was unfairly thrown under the bus when his man blew by his matador defense, and frontcourt players (which would include Lebron, Love, and Tristan Thompson) failed to bail his no-defense ass out.

So rather than blaming Kyrie, we should instead be blaming Love (but presumably not blaming starting center TT or Lebron). That about sum it up?

Knew you'd resort to loophole arguments like this to twist the initial statement.Thats why I finished with..

Of course this doesn't absolve the backcourt of their defensive duties but even the best perimeter defenders will get blown by several times a game

..meaning the backcourt players get blame as well as the frontcourt players. Fact of the matter is a good defensive frontcourt is more crucial to maintaining a good defense

Also never said we shouldn't blame TT or LeBron. They get plenty blame...in the Tristan Thompson and LeBron discussion threads.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

..meaning the backcourt players get blame as well as the frontcourt players. Fact of the matter is a good defensive frontcourt is more crucial to maintaining a good defense.

Also never said we shouldn't blame TT or LeBron. They get plenty blame...in the Tristan Thompson and LeBron discussion threads.

That explanation ignores the context of your original statement, which was other players getting "thrown under the bus to cover Love's limitations", and the example you used with respect to Kyrie was "Kyrie was once blamed for allowing drives...."

So again, if Kyrie is getting blamed for allowing drives, then he's not getting "thrown under the bus". He deserved every shred of blame he got.

I would agree that teams prefer to have at least one plus shot-blocker in your frontcourt to cover for occasional blown penetration. But on this team, the first problem isn't that Kyrie had rare blown assignments - it was that he was blown by far too often. That's why he got "thrown under the bus".

Also, when you have two very good scorers in your frontcourt who also happen to be two of the best rebounders at their position, you'd think the primary shot-blocking responsibility would go to the third frontcourt starter, the center, who offers absolutely nothing offensively. The frontcourt player whose "limitations" are being highlighted in that situation is not the double-double machine at power forward, or the all universe SF. It's the center who can neither score nor protect the rim.

Although really, the thing that admittedly set me off a bit is what I saw as excuse-making for Kyrie's terrible defense, and throwing Love under the bus to cover for Kyrie's below-average defense.

 

[cavsfever]

Love is a 18/11 guy, that is who he is.

His numbers were inflated on a bad Minny team, but on a good team he is still a good scorer who is one of the best outside shooting big men and one of the best rebounders in the NBA.

He is a fringe all star and a very good player.

If you expect Love to be a top 10 player ever, then you will be disappointed, but if you think of love as a top 30 player then you have a more realistic view of who he is.

i dont get the Love hate, he is much better than most are giving credit and people act like no players have weaknesses. He isnt a MVP candidate nor will he ever be, but he is a way above average player because of his rebounding and ability to shoot from outside as a big man.

Exactly. People keep wanting him to be the second best player on a championship team, but he cannot be that. He can be the third best player on a championship team.

The championship recipe is an all-time great plus a high level all star plus a fringe all star. We gave up our high level all star when we let Kyrie go.

 

[fan0283]

That explanation ignores the context of your original statement, which was other players getting "thrown under the bus to cover Love's limitations", and the example you used with respect to Kyrie was "Kyrie was once blamed for allowing drives...."

So again, if Kyrie is getting blamed for allowing drives, then he's not getting "thrown under the bus". He deserved every shred of blame he got.

I would agree that teams prefer to have at least one plus shot-blocker in your frontcourt to cover for occasional blown penetration. But on this team, the first problem isn't that Kyrie had rare blown assignments - it was that he was blown by far too often. That's why he got "thrown under the bus".

Also, when you have two very good scorers in your frontcourt who also happen to be two of the best rebounders at their position, you'd think the primary shot-blocking responsibility would go to the third frontcourt starter, the center, who offers absolutely nothing offensively. The frontcourt player whose "limitations" are being highlighted in that situation is not the double-double machine at power forward, or the all universe SF. It's the center who can neither score nor protect the rim.

Although really, the thing that admittedly set me off a bit is what I saw as excuse-making for Kyrie's terrible defense, and throwing Love under the bus to cover for Kyrie's below-average defense.

There you go again with saying anyone was excusing Kyrie's defense. The statement merely said Love's horrible defense in the frontcourt is far more costly than Kyries horrible defense and that its also the frontcourt's job to clean up the backcourt's spills and not the other way round. Hence the frontcourt shares blame for horrible rim protection on drives. Let's see you continue to play dumb now that that's been clarified

There you also go making it about TT when it's the role every frontcourt player to protect the paint regardless of how many points they score. It's not like Love's offensive burdens are heavy enough to let him take it easy on that end. TT is out injured and we're still sucking on defense. Kyrie is also on the best defensive team in the nba while Love's defense at 4/5 will always be a hindrance to his teams being elite on that end (Edit) without a rim protector.

 

[kookoo]

Exactly. People keep wanting him to be the second best player on a championship team, but he cannot be that. He can be the third best player on a championship team.

The championship recipe is an all-time great plus a high level all star plus a fringe all star. We gave up our high level all star when we let Kyrie go.

I'm sure you didn't mean it in that way, but this is phrased poorly. To say we let Kyrie go is unfair to the team because he was essentially sabotaging any trade value he had while wanting to leave Cleveland. I would have traded him out of spite to a garbage team. He should consider himself lucky we traded him to Boston.

 

[NorthCoastBias]

We gave up our high level all star when we let Kyrie go.

Christ, man. Give it a fucking rest already. They didn't "let him go." The guy asked for a trade and they honored his request to avoid a toxic locker room this season. Doesn't help that, by the time the request was made, options were limited.

 

[Gus Zing]

Kind of worried about Love guarding Howard. In terms of health.

 

[FrontPageNews]

Kind of worried about Love guarding Howard. In terms of health.

He’s not going to get in his way so there’s no worry.