The Wizard of Moz
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Kevin Love Trade Ideas
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gourimoko
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Kevin can cover Bogut, sometimes Ezeli, and should be okay on Harrison Barnes.
Folks are saying GSW will run the PnR with Barnes on the perimeter, but even if they do, so long as we don't switch with Kevin and he doesn't try to go under, he'll be fine. If Barnes will take crowded contested threes, likely with little space in the corner to operate, then I'll live with those shots.
The problem comes when Kerr/Walton forced Kevin into defending a 1-4 PnR situation between Curry/Draymond, drawing Kyrie into that as well. It's a nightmare.
Cavs need to be cognizant of this, and stop switching against Golden State when Love and Irving are both on the floor. Keep Irving on Klay, who he can guard; and keep Love in the post (not hedging on the perimeter) playing effectively as our center against Bogut/Ezeli with Tristan at PF.
All of this though, requires LeBron James to guard Draymond Green and that's been a problem up til now, because James would need to effectively play center in many lineups.
I think it just means that Lebron is guarding Draymond - he can still play point-forward on offense, and Draymond plays inside/outside about the same as anybody else in this league. It just means Lebron is going to have to fight more for rebounds etc.
Lebron is totally capable of that, and I also understand why he wouldn't want to do it for a game in january.
gourimoko
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This is one of those times where you need a coach to tell him "you don't have a choice.. man up, go out there and and D this mofo up."
I do think James can guard Draymond, but I also agree with Lue, he needs to improve his conditioning - because we will need him for 40 MPG come the Finals.
gourimoko
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And that's perfectly fine; as you know man has used this concept to his advantage for thousands of years by shaping the path of least resistance to extract work from rivers and streams.
If we make the path of least resistance Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, or Andre Iguodala and the Warriors try to beat us with those three while we simultaneously have an effective offensive response on the other end; then I really like our chances.
If instead, we play right into their hands, switching everything against the Curry/Green PnR and often the subsequent Curry/Klay double-screen, then we're fucked.
You've gotta gameplan against Golden State, and as you can tell, a lack of serious preparation, as evidenced by last night's game, will likely result in a blowout.
We can't approach them as any other team, they are a very unique opponent. Orlando Magic on steroids.. oh wait..
Cavatt
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I'd agree with you, but even their "scrubs" are better shooters and athletes than anyone on our team.
I went to the game last night and i just think it may be impossible to beat them if they keep this up. They were guarding Steph from the timeline and he can just beat you off the dribble. After the game a Spurs player said they gameplanned to take away the 3 from Steph and he still scored 37 and didn't play in the 4th.
I thought they couldn't stay so hot, but the fact is they are just getting a lot of practice this way.
You cannot help on this team with your defense. You have to play them straight up. there are like 2 teams built for that and they are young. Detroit and the Bucks.
Yup...Jabari Parker is the type of 4 you want against Golden State to help neutralize Draymond Green, whose +/- on the season is just absolutely absurd.
But Jabari moves well enough as a PF that he can switch to smaller defenders, and Milwaukee is big at the guard position with Michael Carter Williams, Giannis, and Khris Middleton, that they're at least built well to put up a good fight. Add in Greg Monroe being able to provide a big body against Bogut and Ezeli and they are able to stay pretty competitive when they play Golden State.
I hate making a reactionary move in anticipation of one team, but I really think it'd be beneficial for the Cavs to make a move for a deep rotational player that can utilized in the playoffs. What Shawn Marion was supposed to be, but actually useful. A hybrid SF/PF that is a good defender and capable of switching onto guards in P&R. Thompson did an admirable job last year, but it'd be a much needed added bonus if said player was a capable shooter and finisher. There are a few guys lurking around the league we could snag for a reasonable price:
Matt Barnes
Jeff Green
Jerami Grant
Corey Brewer
PJ Tucker
Markieff Morris
Omri Casspi (has turned into a nice player in Sacramento...too bad, he'd be a great fit off our bench)
James Johnson
Jared Dudley
Point being, we don't currently have the above player on this roster. Any of the above players becomes a nice piece against Golden State when they go ultra small and are ready to exploit Kevin Love. Defensively, allowing LeBron to stay at SF or PF, while getting one of these guys in the game to handle Iggy or Barnes is ideal. You even have the flexibility of taking Thompson off the court as well if you want to go three guards with LeBron and any of above. So at least you have options. All of the above players also at least you give you a semi-chance when they run pick and roll with Curry.
gourimoko
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The Spurs defense last night was an experiment.
Pop tried to use Kawhi Leonard on Steph Curry and he got smoked. While he's a great wing / forward defender, he's not going to guard someone like Curry, or Irving for that matter. They got caught up in their own hype machine, and got a rude awakening - that's all that happened.
You won't see Leonard on Curry for long stretches again. That's a joke of a matchup.
So the problem they face is how to stop Curry, and they do not have a Shump/Delly tandem in their backcourt. I'll say that again, Shump and Delly are better perimeter (guard) defenders than anyone playing the 1-2 on the Spurs.
To compound the problem, they tried to hide Parker on Klay and that failed, because Parker is a horrible defender whose lateral quickness, at least defensively, has fallen off.
So in that, we have a distinct advantage with respect to defending the Warriors guards.
However, I think in the WCF you'll see the Spurs come out of the gate with Leonard on Draymond, which is a matchup that, in my opinion, greatly favors San Antonio. The Spurs may double Curry on the ball (Green/Parker), and force Klay to win games; they may also let Curry get his, and force everyone else to beat them while playing ball denial against Draymond. This matchup is so lop-sided, that I think it may prevent Golden State from making the Finals.
Anyway, getting back to the Cavs; Kyrie is at times a horrible team defender, and has a tendency to play the lanes and reach, but staying in front of his man - when motivated - is something he is capable of doing when focused. This is evident in our previous matchups against GSW and SAS last season including Game 1 of the Finals.
I think if Lue and Longabardi can teach Irving to not focus on getting steals, then the defensive side of the ball will naturally come to him. He has the tools.
But even if it doesn't, we have the personnel to slow down the Splash Bros., and we've proven it time and again. They end up beating us not because of Curry, but because of Draymond Green and Andre Iguodala. That is where the Cavaliers need to focus, like a laser.
Preventing Draymond from acting in a point-forward capacity for as many possessions as possible. Playing James off-the-ball (this is critical). Putting Love in triple-threat position with James slashing weak-side and Irving in the strong-side corner. Stop losing leads when playing our second unit.
If we can practice some of these concepts during the regular season, we'll be poised to take them on.
secund2nun
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Can't have 2 terrible defenders on the team with Max deals. One needs to go and will go imo if the right deal comes. Irving for cp3 would be one hell of a trade...
Hopefully the Clippers do it. If they say no Cp3 could try to force it... It's not his style to do such a thing but the chance to play with his best friend lebron and a nearly guaranteed trip to the finals with a chance at a ring could tempt him.
Drummond is an even better option . He helped shut down GS. They shot like 30 percent against them in their loss. Drummond dominated and shut down draymond. I'd offer love or kyrie for Drummond. Drummond hurts draymond. He hurts small ball.
Hopefully the Clippers do it. If they say no Cp3 could try to force it... It's not his style to do such a thing but the chance to play with his best friend lebron and a nearly guaranteed trip to the finals with a chance at a ring could tempt him.
Drummond is an even better option . He helped shut down GS. They shot like 30 percent against them in their loss. Drummond dominated and shut down draymond. I'd offer love or kyrie for Drummond. Drummond hurts draymond. He hurts small ball.
gourimoko
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Yeah it is...
But whatevs.. Forgot what thread I was in.. I keep posting in here thinking its the Kevin Love thread cuz Chrome cuts off the title.
gratefuldead
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Drummond is more valuable than kyrie or love. Hell they probably wouldn't even trade him for both together. They have a need for love but none for kyrie.
Problem w drummond is u cant play him in 4th of close game or he'll get hacked
i'll post some ideas for fun in no particular order (main requirement cavs have to get some talent that can help this year); i'm not saying i'd do any of these, just that they seem somewhat fair.
#1. Love for Beal + Nene
Gives CLE another perimeter threat; WAS doesn't have to pay beal who is hurt a lot (RFA this summer) and gets Love and Wall to lure Durant.
#2. Love for Crowder + Lee and Future Brooklyn pick
Crowder fits nicely right away, but Crowder for Love isn't enough, but I'd be enticed if Bos traded Brooklyn's unprotected pick this year (seems doubtful)
#3. Love for Rudy Gay + Ben Mclemore
I actually think Rudy Gay would be a great fit - can play the 4, has good size, but then again he's Rudy Gay. meh
#4. Love for Tobias Harris + Aaron Gordon + Orl pick
Harris could be a nice fit, and Gordon is going to be a solid defensive player, but the cavs would never do this.
#5. Love for Al Horford and Mike Scott
Love is locked up long-term, Horford is not; Horford is probably a great 3rd wheel, but contract status is too iffy.
#1. Love for Beal + Nene
Gives CLE another perimeter threat; WAS doesn't have to pay beal who is hurt a lot (RFA this summer) and gets Love and Wall to lure Durant.
#2. Love for Crowder + Lee and Future Brooklyn pick
Crowder fits nicely right away, but Crowder for Love isn't enough, but I'd be enticed if Bos traded Brooklyn's unprotected pick this year (seems doubtful)
#3. Love for Rudy Gay + Ben Mclemore
I actually think Rudy Gay would be a great fit - can play the 4, has good size, but then again he's Rudy Gay. meh
#4. Love for Tobias Harris + Aaron Gordon + Orl pick
Harris could be a nice fit, and Gordon is going to be a solid defensive player, but the cavs would never do this.
#5. Love for Al Horford and Mike Scott
Love is locked up long-term, Horford is not; Horford is probably a great 3rd wheel, but contract status is too iffy.
Omar The Horse
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