Kyrie Irving Trade Ideas

[fujikuro]

Maybe his attitude is fucked becuase we lack focus. His attitude was great when James first got here; now, one coach later, it's not so great. I wonder why.

Don't think it's the coach. He's played better under Lue than under Blatt this year. Some of that is recovery from the injury. Still, he seems not to be able to "play within himself" on offense and regardless of how you view his previous season, he played the same way last year, except that his outside shot was the best it's ever been. His defense was significantly better last year, and he was at his best conditioning-wise, which I think kind of go hand-in-hand. Again, this could be the injury, but, damn, he's been on the floor since, when, November? Time to man up.

 

[gourimoko]

Don't think it's the coach. He's played better under Lue than under Blatt this year.

That's not my meaning. I'm saying his attitude is a symptom of a larger problem; and that's being a toxic environment. I think LeBron James is actually contributing to that toxicity, but in fairness, that it has existed long before he returned.

We're just not run properly, and I think that trickles down to the staff and the players.

Some of that is recovery from the injury. Still, he seems not to be able to "play within himself" on offense and regardless of how you view his previous season, he played the same way last year, except that his outside shot was the best it's ever been. His defense was significantly better last year, and he was at his best conditioning-wise, which I think kind of go hand-in-hand. Again, this could be the injury, but, damn, he's been on the floor since, when, November? Time to man up.

Not sure how its "time to man up" though. He's not shirking away from taking shots, or shying away from big moments. His efficiency is down because he's not making 3-pointers. He's taking them at the same rate he always has, he's just not knocking them down.

As far as playing "within the offense," well, I'm not so sure about that. I'm not confident we have an offense that successfully incorporates all 3 of our star players simultaneously in an integrated fashion.

 

[godfather]

Don't think it's the coach. He's played better under Lue than under Blatt this year. Some of that is recovery from the injury. Still, he seems not to be able to "play within himself" on offense and regardless of how you view his previous season, he played the same way last year, except that his outside shot was the best it's ever been. His defense was significantly better last year, and he was at his best conditioning-wise, which I think kind of go hand-in-hand. Again, this could be the injury, but, damn, he's been on the floor since, when, November? Time to man up.

He wasn't healthy under Blatt. Overall, I think he was better under Blatt. But it's fair to say Kyrie has not been the same this year.

Gour is right. Why don't we actually hire the right coaching staff for once and try developing our talent, before we decide they're damaged goods.

It's just awful to think any player should come into the league and do everything on their own. Which is what Kyrie has had to do thus far.

Toxic environment, dysfunction from the front office down to the coaching staff. Inconsistent changes in coaches. And people are surprised Kyrie hasn't developed?

Look at Klay Thompson and Leonard. Look how functional those organizations are and then compare them to ours. Maybe people now can see why they're able to develop compared to the shit fest Kyrie inherited.

Gour is right about the offense. What, because Lue is able to get them to move the ball? Doesn't necessarily mean a functioning offense.

Lue has no clue how to utilize mismatches. Our offense isn't about getting our best scorers involved. That's a problem.

It's about getting everyone involved. Which is fine, but if you're not going try to create easier scoring opportunities for your best scorers, then you are useless as a coach.

 

[fujikuro]

He wasn't healthy under Blatt. Overall, I think he was better under Blatt. But it's fair to say Kyrie has not been the same this year.

Gour is right. Why don't we actually hire the right coaching staff for once and try developing our talent, before we decide they're damaged goods.

It's just awful to think any player should come into the league and do everything on their own. Which is what Kyrie has had to do thus far.

Toxic environment, dysfunction from the front office down to the coaching staff. Inconsistent changes in coaches. And people are surprised Kyrie hasn't developed?

Look at Klay Thompson and Leonard. Look how functional those organizations are and then compare them to ours. Maybe people now can see why they're able to develop compared to the shit fest Kyrie inherited.

Gour is right about the offense. What, because Lue is able to get them to move the ball? Doesn't necessarily mean a functioning offense.

Lue has no clue how to utilize mismatches. Our offense isn't about getting our best scorers involved. That's a problem.

It's about getting everyone involved. Which is fine, but if you're not going try to create easier scoring opportunities for your best scorers, then you are useless as a coach.

Can't totally disagree with you here, however when you're trying to find where a problem with a situation is, you look for the constants. On one hand, we have the front office. On the other, we have Kyrie. In the meantime, we've had a number of different coaches come and go - not one of which has managed to get Kyrie to develop in anything other than a random way? Each and every one of them has been an utter failure on getting Kyrie to learn how to play within a system? Really? NONE of the head coaches or assistants has been capable of developing a player at all? We assume then that Delly is an aberration and has done it completely on his own? We haven't had enough young, decent talent on this team to even make proper comparisons. Delly has developed, Tristan has mostly just refined in a broad way, and Kyrie is not a whole lot different than from his rookie year. Can we say that we've drafted much else in between? Bennett is a complete failure in talent assessment, not development - he's been absolute garbage everywhere. So, we're talking about a very small pool of players to even assess for development. Two of the guys mentioned above appear to be hard workers who get what they get through toughness and attitude. One of them appears to get what he gets via natural talent. How much work does he put in? Who knows, but he appears to be both mentally and physically fragile. CAN you develop someone like that? I dunno, but it is a problem. I just don't see the fire there that causes a player to want to be great at defense. I doubt we'll ever see much from him on that front. He certainly loves to score. I just wish he was 6'5" instead o 6'1" or whatever he actually is. Then he'd just be an actual shooting guard and we could live with that. LeBron will be gone some day, and Kyrie will still not be a primary ball handler. What will the Cavs do then?

 

[godfather]

Delly didn't develop that much. Everything Delly can do, he did when coming into the league. The only think I feel he's really developed is becoming a much better and more consistent shooter.

If anything, I think Delly is just playing with more confidence. Now he knows he belongs. Last year, I never got that feeling. He always played hard, but Delly also played like he was scared to step on LeBron or Kyrie's toes.

After his playoff breakout I think Delly came in a confident guy that knows he belongs.

We don't have coaches around long enough for anyone to develop. I never said there's never been a coach that didn't do ANY good with Kyrie.

I actually liked how Byron Scott handled Kyrie the best. He was just a bad coach overall.

I think Blatt was making head ways with Kyrie, but he was fired.

Mike Brown was a disaster for him. Lue has definitely been a disaster for him.

If we stop hiring inept coaches, we can once and for all see what we have with him. Maybe Kyrie will never learn. I don't know. I'm not going on past history to determine that though.

 

[Tlyons]

Suck it up and strap in for the playoff run bitches.

 

[Cavatt]

See I would trade Love first as I feel like Love has less upside than Kyrie. I really think Kyrie could be the best scorer in the NBA. Kevin just doesn't have that potential. If you could trade Kevin for a really good 2-3 or a long defender at the 4 who could shoot a little. I'd do that all day.

 

[godfather]

See I would trade Love first as I feel like Love has less upside than Kyrie. I really think Kyrie could be the best scorer in the NBA. Kevin just doesn't have that potential. If you could trade Kevin for a really good 2-3 or a long defender at the 4 who could shoot a little. I'd do that all day.

I think Love doesn't fit in the best either. I know Love fans that see this will go WHAT! And post a million stats how they blend in so well together.

Love and 'Bron play fine together, but for us to be our best, we need to become a quicker team. That means moving LB to the 4, and we can't do that with Love.

As for Kyrie.

This is why I'm interested in an Avery Bradley for example. I think he'd be perfect in the back court with Kyrie. He can hide a lot of Kyrie's defensive problems.

You need a pitbull defensive guard next to Kyrie IMO. With JR, you just don't get that.

I've never liked the JR and Kyrie pairing. It's never made sense to me. They're too similar in their strengths and too similar in their weaknesses.

 

[Wrathe]

I'd rather keep Love myself if I had to choose, but that really comes down to offensive desires for me.
Personally, I'm a fan of inside out, running the offense through the post, cutting, inside passing, etc.

I guess that's my biggest question. What offense is it we WANT to run? ISO? Post? What? What are we trying to do? Even if it's running ISO, I think Kyrie and Lebron conflict over ball ownership there and Kyrie would need some more adaptation.

With that said, if we can adapt, why can't we keep them all and adapt to whatever our system is supposed to be. If the issue is truly he either can't or won't adapt from the ball dominant style and that's a conflict, then you have to move him as those types of offensive players rarely win championships. Lone wolves put up big numbers but go home early.

If he can learn to use the threat of his scoring potential to find others like Lebron does and is willing to feed others earlier in the shot clock that will allow for better ball movement and such, I think we'll be good w/ all 3.

I'm excited for the playoffs and what they show us.

 

[Dr. Claw]

Are dumb as fuck, and if you cheer for dumb as fuck front office decisions....

Well, you might be a Cavs fan.

But you might also might want to consider also rooting for the Knicks in 2016

 

[Rich]

I will even include reasons why James does not want the facilitating, ball handling, offense controlling point guard here anyway, buddies or not.

Hopefully it won't be necessary and the "Big Three" & Co. get the job done. Go Cavs!

Why James doesn't want, or why you think James shouldn't want? Because, ugh, he just said like two weeks ago how much he'd like to play with Chris Paul (and Carmelo Anthony). So, yes he DOES want.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Just a request:
Can we move all Kyrie convo to his thread, and lock this one for now?

I know we get a ton of traffic during the playoffs, and while its a valid discussion, its not a good look that this thread is consistently one of the last forums posted on.

 

[CommD]

Why James doesn't want, or why you think James shouldn't want? Because, ugh, he just said like two weeks ago how much he'd like to play with Chris Paul (and Carmelo Anthony). So, yes he DOES want.

LeBron James has constructed at least three NBA teams now and none have started a traditional PG.

Dude SAYS all kind of shit. Coach Lue had to tell him to shut the hell up!

 

[Rich]

LeBron James has constructed at least three NBA teams now and none have started a traditional PG.

Dude SAYS all kind of shit. Coach Lue had to tell him to shut the hell up!

LeBron James literally says "I want to play with Chris Paul" and I'm supposed to take your version? Pass.

And btw, I'm really waiting for the "winner" gene to kick in at any moment.

If the front office is hell bent on trying to win a title at all costs, I don't see how one can make an argument to trade Love for a guy like Melo, but not Kyrie for a guy like Chris Paul.

 

[Cashius X]

Kyrie has been struggling recently & honestly hasn't been playing too well this season as a whole (by his standards).

I'm not ready to count him out though, dude can ball & we've seen that over his tenure in Cleveland. Hoping he can turn it around when the postseason starts.