Kyrie Irving Trade Ideas

[Zog]

Part of why Doc took the job was because of CP3. Mostly why Paul re-signed was because of Doc.

I don't see either wanting to part from the other. Even LB himself said the coach he'd like to play for the most is Doc. Players seem to love playing for him.

The Clippers might be in position to get Durant this summer. I could see a Blake for Durant swap. That alone could change everything on him having any desire at all of leaving.

I think Paul coming here is very unlikely.

Wasn't Doc traded from Boston to LA? Let's trade Kyrie + Lue for CP3 and Doc.

 

[Rich]

I disagree with your point; even though injured Irving's team went to the finals last season. At some point I will review his playoff results and respond in more depth.

My recall of Paul's latest choke was easier, as it was an historic collapse.

Yea, there ya go. Chris Paul has always been the best player on his team.

Needless to say, Kyrie wasn't even close to the best player on his team last season, was he?

Chris Paul has certainly had some failures in the playoffs, but I can point to at least three or four playoff runs where Paul was one of the best players in the world and unquestionably had more personal success than what Kyrie has had in the playoffs. See Chris Paul's first playoff run, in his 3rd season, where he was dominant (btw, where was Kyrie in his 3rd season? Back in the lottery...........).

You wanna die on this hill, go ahead. No one else outside of your own head will buy into this "Chris Paul is a loser and choker while Kyrie is a winner and clutch" argument. There's zero empirical evidence to support the claim.

And btw, if we do the right thing and make an apples to apples comparison and compare Paul's regular season success to Kyrie's (which is what you're using), then it's not even a contest. Paul is and has been the superior player by leaps and bounds.

EDIT: As a side note, never use team achievements (like best run in the playoffs, or team wins, or amount of championships) to compare two individual players unless both players were equals in relation to their importance to their team. Telling me Kyrie has been further in the playoffs as an injured 2nd banana than Chris Paul has as his teams best player means zip.

 

[CommD]

In the mean-time, here's some regular season Chris Paul for you (LOL):

Paul Misses Late (Airball)

http://www.nba.com/video/games/clippers/2015/03/15/0021400983-hou-lac-play7.nba/

 

[All4One1ForAll]

In the mean-time, here's some regular season Chris Paul for you (LOL):

Paul Misses Late (Airball)

http://www.nba.com/video/games/clippers/2015/03/15/0021400983-hou-lac-play7.nba/

Cool. Here's another shot for you.


The idea that Paul is some choker is one of the dumbest arguments related to the NBA I've ever heard. Look at his playoff numbers. They speak for themselves. With the Hornets, Paul had nobody around him and still managed to drag them to the playoffs and even to the second round. With the Clippers, he's made it to the second round twice and no further, yet he's been consistently producing like a superstar. It's his team that frankly isn't good enough outside the starters. Their bench is abysmal, and that won't fly with teams like the Spurs, the Warriors, and the Thunder out West.

I don't get how people can bag on Paul for his "lack of playoff success" and then look over at Kyrie and act like he's achieved anything by himself. I really hope we trade some package around Kyrie for CP3 this offseason. It's absolutely comical how much people are underrating a guy who's quite frankly a top 5 PG in NBA history based on his numbers and impact, and yet people don't seem to realize that because they pay so much attention to ridiculous narratives.

 

[CommD]

Cool. Here's another shot for you.


The idea that Paul is some choker is one of the dumbest arguments related to the NBA I've ever heard. Look at his playoff numbers. They speak for themselves. With the Hornets, Paul had nobody around him and still managed to drag them to the playoffs and even to the second round. With the Clippers, he's made it to the second round twice and no further, yet he's been consistently producing like a superstar. It's his team that frankly isn't good enough outside the starters. Their bench is abysmal, and that won't fly with teams like the Spurs, the Warriors, and the Thunder out West.

I don't get how people can bag on Paul for his "lack of playoff success" and then look over at Kyrie and act like he's achieved anything by himself. I really hope we trade some package around Kyrie for CP3 this offseason. It's absolutely comical how much people are underrating a guy who's quite frankly a top 5 PG in NBA history based on his numbers and impact, and yet people don't seem to realize that because they pay so much attention to ridiculous narratives.

Of course after this great shot knocking out the defending champs, Paul's team was up 19 in the next round at the start of the 4th with a chance to go to the WCF. A top five PG (don't dispute that in objective terms) allowed his team to lose that game, and subsequently lose the series (even with primary HOU rim protector Dwight Howard was hobbled with a knee injury).

He (and his team) choked, and it wasn't the first time. It happens to some of the best of them--even one LeBron James. It is what it is.

 

[rabman_gold]

Given that Kyrie couldn't play for the majority of last year's playoffs, I'd need to see how he'd fare at full health this year. If he still is unable to stop hoarding the ball with 2 above average offensive all-stars on the court with him, he may need to be moved, because I can't see him sacrificing his ego and becoming a glorified sixth man candidate.

Now if we could get someone like Chris Paul, it would go a long way for us. In his 4 second round playoff appearances, he's led centers with terrible offensive games (despite being dominant defensively), power forwards who are real sissies on defense and lacking in mental strength (but had decent offensive repertoires), and wing players who were considered has-beens by the time the playoffs arrived.

Playing with a star of LeBron's caliber would probably have the same impact that Wade had on LeBron. He could share the ball-handling duties without any problems (and LeBron LOVED to defer when playing in the Olympics with guys like Kidd and CP3). They could successfully replicate the Stockton/Malone plays that allowed the Jazz to reach the NBA Finals. And Chris would still be an offensive threat when we need him to, also giving us a player who plays decent defense.

There's potential, but I'd rather play this season out first. The playoffs will be very telling on if Irving has a future here. I want a championship first and foremost. For "The Land."

 

[godfather]

Wasn't Doc traded from Boston to LA? Let's trade Kyrie + Lue for CP3 and Doc.

I wouldn't want Doc. He's a million times better coach than Lue (who isn't), but I think he's vastly overrated. His excessive whining and self-entitled attitude might just feed into this team too much. Wouldn't want him at all.

Players love playing for him, but I think he's an overrated head coach.

I'd love to have one of his former assistant coaches though, You know, the guy that possibly had a bigger impact than Doc on his Celtics winning a title.

 

[Rich]

In the mean-time, here's some regular season Chris Paul for you (LOL):

Paul Misses Late (Airball)

http://www.nba.com/video/games/clippers/2015/03/15/0021400983-hou-lac-play7.nba/

This is your argument now? Ok, I think we're done here.

 

[CommD]

This is your argument now? Ok, I think we're done here.

Of course its not an argument, just a little humor to substitute for research I don't have time to do right now.

That's ok, I'm riding with my guy Kyrie and the rest of the Cavs to go and get us this title. If it doesn't happen, I will put forth a serious Paul choke analysis when y' all start proposing the trade again.

I will even include reasons why James does not want the facilitating, ball handling, offense controlling point guard here anyway, buddies or not.

Hopefully it won't be necessary and the "Big Three" & Co. get the job done. Go Cavs!

 

[BigJ]

I will even include reasons why James does not want the facilitating, ball handling, offense controlling point guard here anyway, buddies or not.

Oh man.. thats a myth that is so old it has to be dead by now.. seriously..

Blake does around simillar Ballhandling things next to Paul and they are doing just fine..
Lebron had 12 Assists last night and Delly 9..

Have you noticed how incredible Lebron has played off the Ball lately? he also did that for 3 years in Miami(after they figured their offense out after 2011)..

Paul could come here get 9apg in 32mpg and Lebron would still get his 6apg

Also dont underestimate Lebrons BBIQ.. he knows that CP3 "best friends" aside is individually a top5 Point Guard of all time.. We all see what Delly does for our offense and defense.. CP3 would be "Super-Delly" for us.. Great offensive coordinator,good defender,good 3pt Shooter... and he is a much better scorer and Rebounder

I kinda think its sad that the Team seems to be not only better but also seemingly having more fun when Kyrie is out..

But we have him now and will see what the Playoffs bring.. a 25ppg/7apg Playoffs from Kyrie with a title at the end would cure all^^ But IF we fall short.. and it continues to show that Kyrie rather then Love is the Problem... well.. If we can get CP3 for him.. or some simillar great pieces.. we have to consider it.

 

[fujikuro]

And I'll take Paul's ability to defend opposing point guards over Kyrie's any day of the week.

 

[gourimoko]

And I'll take Paul's ability to defend opposing point guards over Kyrie's any day of the week.

Kyrie just turned 24. Chris Paul will be 31, what, next month? He'll be 32 years old by next years playoffs which is the earliest he could help us win a title if we had him?

Let's calm down with the CP3 talk, please.

Cavs suck at developing players partly because of the urge to satisfy fans who are so impatient they lack long-term vision. Develop Kyrie. Hire the personnel to do it. Invest the time and effort.

Trading a budding superstar for the tail end of 1 to maybe 2 years of another superstar makes no sense. It's like trading Love for Melo.

 

[TyGuy]

Kyrie just turned 24. Chris Paul will be 31, what, next month? He'll be 32 years old by next years playoffs which is the earliest he could help us win a title if we had him?

Let's calm down with the CP3 talk, please.

Cavs suck at developing players partly because of the urge to satisfy fans who are so impatient they lack long-term vision. Develop Kyrie. Hire the personnel to do it. Invest the time and effort.

Trading a superstar for the tail end of 1-2 years of another superstar makes no sense. It's like trading Love for Melo.

It's disturbing to me that kyrie has regressed. There should have been a lot of development by now, but instead his scoring efficiency is down and his defense is as bad as ever. I don't care about his mediocre playmaking as much as others, but it worries me how bad he has been at both scoring the ball and defending.

I have ideas as to why his three point shooting is in the toilet, but his defense is just unacceptable. 31 year old Chris Paul who doesn't have a whole lot of length and size is a much better defender than 24 year old kyrie. Paul is also a more efficient scorer and better shooter; this is where kyrie should have a sizable advantage.

Dallas got blasted for trading Devon Harris for an advanced age Jason Kidd, and they got the better end of the deal. The super elite point guards have played at a high level for a very long time in the nba. I don't see why Chris Paul can't either.

I have been a huge kyrie supporter and big fan of his since he was a prospect we were all scouting at duke. I find his lack of development and at time his attitude and maturity disturbing.

 

[gourimoko]

It's disturbing to me that kyrie has regressed. There should have been a lot of development by now, but instead his scoring efficiency is down and his defense is as bad as ever.

If we look at flat season to season comparisons, then his efficiency is down. But if we actually drill-down into the data, we see that some of his numbers are up, and some of them are down.

The reality of his "regressed" TS/FG efficiency is that he's shooting a career-low from behind the arc and that's what's dragging his efficiency down.

So if this argument is about his scoring efficiency; well, then I really don't get it.

Lastly, where is this development supposed to come from? Byron Scott, Mike Brown, David Blatt and Ty Lue? Who is supposed to be developing this guy?

I mean, at some point we need to recognize this franchise is poorly run and simply does not know how to develop talent; and that starts with ownership actively hiring managers that lack experience in developing players and franchises because ownership wants the biggest seat at the table.

So long as Dan Gilbert is our de facto general manager, then I don't think we'll have a well managed front office.

I don't care about his mediocre playmaking as much as others, but it worries me how bad he has been at both scoring the ball and defending.

He's posting career highs on 70% of his shots (all 2Ps); it's just his 3-pt shot that's not falling. He's money from anywhere else on the floor. It's obviously a temporary problem for a guy who is a fantastic shooter coming off a severe injury.

I have ideas as to why his three point shooting is in the toilet, but his defense is just unacceptable. 31 year old Chris Paul who doesn't have a whole lot of length and size is a much better defender than 24 year old kyrie. Paul is also a more efficient scorer and better shooter; this is where kyrie should have a sizable advantage.

Chris Paul is one of the best point guards in the NBA, but for how much longer?

I'm not sure what the point of the comparison is without taking that into account. He's 31, and will be 32 in next year's playoffs and then 33 the year after that.

How long will he be better than Kyrie, who is very likely a lifelong Cavalier?

Develop the talent you have.

Dallas got blasted for trading Devon Harris for an advanced age Jason Kidd, and they got the better end of the deal. The super elite point guards have played at a high level for a very long time in the nba. I don't see why Chris Paul can't either.

I don't think this is an analogous comparison.

I have been a huge kyrie supporter and big fan of his since he was a prospect we were all scouting at duke. I find his lack of development and at time his attitude and maturity disturbing.

Maybe his attitude is fucked becuase we lack focus. His attitude was great when James first got here; now, one coach later, it's not so great. I wonder why.

 

[Mazer]

Maybe his attitude is fucked becuase we lack focus. His attitude was great when James first got here; now, one coach later, it's not so great. I wonder why.

Well, because of Kehlani of course!