Kyrie Irving

[Steve_424]

Dude lacks winner intangibles. His idea of competing isnt to stop you defensively. No, no thats to boring for Uncle Drew. He WANTS you to score on him so he can one up you once he gets the ball back. A pg taking 33 shots is never acceptable even if you score 40 and its even less impressive when your matchup scores an efficient 34 on your head. Dude just doesn't have the intangibles or mental toughness you want from your best player. I think Waiters has it to an extent but he isnt the "franchise guy"

 

[Nathan S]

Things are getting weird around here...think I better leave and come back after a win.

 

[Ohio]

sloppy sloppy sloppy

 

[chrisrich91]

Things are getting weird around here...think I better leave and come back after a win.

Go ahead and do that. Because after a (rare) win, nobody bitches because we're all excited/high from the win. The mistakes along the way mean nothing because we got the dub.

After losses the problems with the team are at their clearest. Kyrie is one of them. It's not blasphemy to point out your best player's faults. We go nowhere until Kyrie figures this stuff out.

Now, guys like amil are just trolls. They post the stupid conspiracy shit after a win or a loss. I don't stick up for those clowns.

 

[Tornicade]

this is sometimes a problem on these forums. a bunch of us are having a discussion as to why we didnt win. not why we lost. it may seem the same but there is certainly a difference one is about areas of improvement the other is finger pointing. Also some of us are trying to observe and discuss areas we see could improve or had an impact overal.. this involved a collection of plays not an individual play here or there with the exception of Kyries defensive effort on the last play of the game.

also as richfield is always commenting theres a difference between kyrie weaving through 3 or 4 defenders with proper spacing and doing sideline spin dribbles with a give and go 3 feet away.

take the give and go save the fancy dribbling for another play.

personally if kyrie is passing the ball through traffic and turns it over. its not a big deal to me. when he is standing still dribbling out of bounds when he has guys to push the ball to. that just drives me nuts.

Kyries rebound had an open guy on the other side of his defender. dribble dribble turnover. at halfcourt Kyrie had AV on the perimeter for a give and go. dribble dribble ..turnover.

not doing these things can go a long way towards winning games they should as opposed to be lucked in perpetual ot where whichever team has the hot hand wins.

 

[cavfanintexas]

people can bitch about Kyrie all they want but we will not be a winning team until we get rid of a center that can not run or jump, stop playing with worst group of SF in the league, playing 3/4 of the game with 3 guards that are under 6'4". We have 4 true NBA starters Kyrie, Dion, TT, and AV.

 

[Cayman13]

people can bitch about Kyrie all they want but we will not be a winning team until we get rid of a center that can not run or jump, stop playing with worst group of SF in the league, playing 3/4 of the game with 3 guards that are under 6'4". We have 4 true NBA starters Kyrie, Dion, TT, and AV.

Can't argue with this - it about sums it up.

 

[KI4MVP]

The last 4 minutes of regulation, during the Uncle Drew Show, he did not score. We could have used some points from someone.

last 3 minutes

2:55 91-94 Matthew Dellavedova makes 6-foot two point shot (Anderson Varejao assists)
2:25 91-95 Tristan Thompson makes free throw 1 of 2
2:25 91-95 Tristan Thompson misses free throw 2 of 2
2:23 91-95 Matthew Dellavedova bad pass (Shelvin Mack steals)
1:52 93-95 Kyrie Irving misses driving layup
1:28 93-95 Matthew Dellavedova steps out of bounds turnover
0:39 95-95 Kyrie Irving misses 26-foot three point jumper
0:26 95-95 Kyrie Irving misses driving layup
0:24 95-95 Anderson Varejao misses tip shot
0:00 95-95 Anderson Varejao misses 26-foot three point jumper

Dellavedova had 3 possessions, 2 turnovers and a score.
Tristan took a shot, got fouled, missed one of the foul shots
Kyrie missed 3 shots (all shots he normally makes)
Andy missed 1 shot (did anyone really want him getting that shot instead of Kyrie?)

Out of 8 possessions in the last 3 minutes, Kyrie had a whole 3 of them. He missed 3 shots he normally makes. Dellavedova also had 3 of them, he turned the ball over twice. What team's fans complains that we should have changed that to something like 4 possessions for Dellavedova and 2 for Kyrie?

The first overtime we built a leas with this

4:11 95-97 Kyrie Irving makes 16-foot jumper
3:14 97-99 Dion Waiters makes 16-foot jumper (Kyrie Irving assists)
2:45 99-101 Anderson Varejao makes 16-foot jumper (Kyrie Irving assists)
1:23 99-102 Kyrie Irving makes free throw 1 of 2 (after drawing a shooting foul)
1:23 99-103 Kyrie Irving makes free throw 2 of 2

He made the plays we needed, then it turned into a foul shooting game. Our best clutch time foul shooter is Kyrie, instead the ball ends up in Jacks hands (I believe Kyrie passed it), and we get

0:21 101-103 Jarrett Jack misses free throw 1 of 2
0:21 101-104 Jarrett Jack makes free throw 2 of 2

Dellavedova came up clutch in his foul shots, but was anyone really happy it was him instead of Kyrie taking those pressure shots. Especialy after seeing his first one. I can guarantee the other team wanted it to be Dellavedova instead of Kyrie in that situation.

Did Kyrie miss some shots that quarter? Sure, but he's not alone. Here are the misses

4:43 95-95 Dion Waiters misses driving layup
3:27 97-97 Kyrie Irving misses jumper
2:06 99-101 Kyrie Irving misses 18-foot jumper
1:54 99-101 Al Horford blocks Tristan Thompson 's 1-foot shot
1:39 99-101 Tristan Thompson misses 8-foot jumper
1:00 101-103 Kyrie Irving misses 9-foot two point jumper
0:29 101-103 Kyrie Irving misses 9-foot

he had 8 credited possessions in the quarter for Kyrie. 4 points, 2 assists. That's success 50% of his possessions.

I posted this earlier, but here's the 2nd overtime

4:46 108-111 Kyrie Irving makes 26-foot three point jumper
4:35 Jeff Teague lost ball turnover (Kyrie Irving steals) 108-111
4:30 108-113 Kyrie Irving makes two point shot
2:49 113-117 Tristan Thompson makes jumper (Kyrie Irving assists)
2:32 117-121 Kyrie Irving makes 30-foot three point jumper
1:59 120-123 Kyrie Irving makes 19-foot two point shot
1:23 122-123 Kyrie Irving misses 26-foot three point jumper
0:55 125-125 Kyrie Irving makes 17-foot jumper

he was 5-6, plus an assist and a steal. That's efficient.

The team only missed two shots and scored 17 points in the 2nd overtime. They should have won the game. A missed 5 second violation call, a missed call where Mack airballed a shot then got his own rebound certainly didn't help, but we just needed to play some defense and gets stops. Even with those, we never should have allowed 19 points in 5 minutes.

Somewhere in there the refs missed a 5 second call where it took 6.1 seconds to inbound the ball, missed a traveling violation when a player shot, air balled and got his own rebound. We also did the idiotic thing of fouling Kover on a 3 point shot, giving them a 4 point play, then fouling Teague on a layup giving a 3 point play, then winning a jumb ball to determine which team got the game winning shot attempt and tapping it where nobody was.

During the whole 13 minutes I just listed, Kyrie had 16 points on 6-14 shooting, including 2 made 3 pointers, so an eFG% of .500. He actually took a 15th shot, was foul and made the two foul shots. So he was effectively 8-15. He had just 1 turnover (the miscue with 2 seconds left in first overtime), 1 steal, 3 assists.

Kyrie played well enough to win 9 out of 10 games.

 

[Certified Beast]

Hero ball is far from being the Cav's only problem, but it's proven to be a pretty big one. When kyrie goes 1 on 5, he stops the offense and is extremely predictable making the job of the defense easier.

When the other players are forced to stand and watch on offense they become less engaged in the game, and I wouldn't be surprised if it contributed to some of the defensive lapses we see at the end of games.

Watching the Hawks last night is proof that playing as a team wins games. They killed us by committee. Milsap scored. Hortford scored before getting injured. korver was hitting shots. Teague hit some big shots. And they even shared the ball so that tall big guy (who's name I can't remember) hit a corner 3. They trusted each other and played like a team and that's why they won.

 

[godfather]

I completely disagree, the game would have been over in the 4th (Cavs victory) if Kyrie didn't decide to play 1v5 for the final 4 minutes.

So without his 40 points, we still win the game? Explain.

 

[mcfly]

The more I watch, the more I see that our back court is not really the problem. We have one starting caliber big man, and even then, he (Thompson) has a ways to go. If we had a starting caliber center, things would/should look a lot different.

 

[brownsbuck6]

last 3 minutes

2:55 91-94 Matthew Dellavedova makes 6-foot two point shot (Anderson Varejao assists)
2:25 91-95 Tristan Thompson makes free throw 1 of 2
2:25 91-95 Tristan Thompson misses free throw 2 of 2
2:23 91-95 Matthew Dellavedova bad pass (Shelvin Mack steals)
1:52 93-95 Kyrie Irving misses driving layup
1:28 93-95 Matthew Dellavedova steps out of bounds turnover
0:39 95-95 Kyrie Irving misses 26-foot three point jumper
0:26 95-95 Kyrie Irving misses driving layup
0:24 95-95 Anderson Varejao misses tip shot
0:00 95-95 Anderson Varejao misses 26-foot three point jumper

Dellavedova had 3 possessions, 2 turnovers and a score.
Tristan took a shot, got fouled, missed one of the foul shots
Kyrie missed 3 shots (all shots he normally makes)
Andy missed 1 shot (did anyone really want him getting that shot instead of Kyrie?)

Out of 8 possessions in the last 3 minutes, Kyrie had a whole 3 of them. He missed 3 shots he normally makes. Dellavedova also had 3 of them, he turned the ball over twice. What team's fans complains that we should have changed that to something like 4 possessions for Dellavedova and 2 for Kyrie?

The first overtime we built a leas with this

4:11 95-97 Kyrie Irving makes 16-foot jumper
3:14 97-99 Dion Waiters makes 16-foot jumper (Kyrie Irving assists)
2:45 99-101 Anderson Varejao makes 16-foot jumper (Kyrie Irving assists)
1:23 99-102 Kyrie Irving makes free throw 1 of 2 (after drawing a shooting foul)
1:23 99-103 Kyrie Irving makes free throw 2 of 2

He made the plays we needed, then it turned into a foul shooting game. Our best clutch time foul shooter is Kyrie, instead the ball ends up in Jacks hands (I believe Kyrie passed it), and we get

0:21 101-103 Jarrett Jack misses free throw 1 of 2
0:21 101-104 Jarrett Jack makes free throw 2 of 2

Dellavedova came up clutch in his foul shots, but was anyone really happy it was him instead of Kyrie taking those pressure shots. Especialy after seeing his first one. I can guarantee the other team wanted it to be Dellavedova instead of Kyrie in that situation.

Did Kyrie miss some shots that quarter? Sure, but he's not alone. Here are the misses

4:43 95-95 Dion Waiters misses driving layup
3:27 97-97 Kyrie Irving misses jumper
2:06 99-101 Kyrie Irving misses 18-foot jumper
1:54 99-101 Al Horford blocks Tristan Thompson 's 1-foot shot
1:39 99-101 Tristan Thompson misses 8-foot jumper
1:00 101-103 Kyrie Irving misses 9-foot two point jumper
0:29 101-103 Kyrie Irving misses 9-foot

he had 8 credited possessions in the quarter for Kyrie. 4 points, 2 assists. That's success 50% of his possessions.

I posted this earlier, but here's the 2nd overtime

4:46 108-111 Kyrie Irving makes 26-foot three point jumper
4:35 Jeff Teague lost ball turnover (Kyrie Irving steals) 108-111
4:30 108-113 Kyrie Irving makes two point shot
2:49 113-117 Tristan Thompson makes jumper (Kyrie Irving assists)
2:32 117-121 Kyrie Irving makes 30-foot three point jumper
1:59 120-123 Kyrie Irving makes 19-foot two point shot
1:23 122-123 Kyrie Irving misses 26-foot three point jumper
0:55 125-125 Kyrie Irving makes 17-foot jumper

he was 5-6, plus an assist and a steal. That's efficient.

The team only missed two shots and scored 17 points in the 2nd overtime. They should have won the game. A missed 5 second violation call, a missed call where Mack airballed a shot then got his own rebound certainly didn't help, but we just needed to play some defense and gets stops. Even with those, we never should have allowed 19 points in 5 minutes.

Somewhere in there the refs missed a 5 second call where it took 6.1 seconds to inbound the ball, missed a traveling violation when a player shot, air balled and got his own rebound. We also did the idiotic thing of fouling Kover on a 3 point shot, giving them a 4 point play, then fouling Teague on a layup giving a 3 point play, then winning a jumb ball to determine which team got the game winning shot attempt and tapping it where nobody was.

During the whole 13 minutes I just listed, Kyrie had 16 points on 6-14 shooting, including 2 made 3 pointers, so an eFG% of .500. He actually took a 15th shot, was foul and made the two foul shots. So he was effectively 8-15. He had just 1 turnover (the miscue with 2 seconds left in first overtime), 1 steal, 3 assists.

Kyrie played well enough to win 9 out of 10 games.

All of that and not one mention of a single turnover Kyrie had during that stretch.. but you were sure to point out turnovers Delly had for instance.

Then there is the inconvenient fact that if the second OT never happens, Kyrie's numbers would have looked much, much different. Just having that second OT to play in saved his numbers.

 

[KI4MVP]

^ he only had 1 turnover in those 13 minutes and I did mention it in the next to last sentence.

 

[brownsbuck6]

^ he only had 1 turnover in those 13 minutes and I did mention it in the next to last sentence.

I can distinctly remember two without even trying- he dribbled twice into the corner where he got trapped and at least one of those times turned into a turnover (another he called timeout), and he dribbled the ball off his foot late in one of the overtimes. There is no way 1 turnover is correct.

 

[OptimusPrime]

last 3 minutes

2:55 91-94 Matthew Dellavedova makes 6-foot two point shot (Anderson Varejao assists)
2:25 91-95 Tristan Thompson makes free throw 1 of 2
2:25 91-95 Tristan Thompson misses free throw 2 of 2
2:23 91-95 Matthew Dellavedova bad pass (Shelvin Mack steals)
1:52 93-95 Kyrie Irving misses driving layup
1:28 93-95 Matthew Dellavedova steps out of bounds turnover
0:39 95-95 Kyrie Irving misses 26-foot three point jumper
0:26 95-95 Kyrie Irving misses driving layup
0:24 95-95 Anderson Varejao misses tip shot
0:00 95-95 Anderson Varejao misses 26-foot three point jumper

That's great. I watched the game. You know what I saw?

3:48 91-92 Kyrie Irving out of bounds lost ball turnover - Iso Ball - 0 points
3:20 91-92 Kyrie Irving lost ball turnover (Paul Millsap steals) - Iso Ball - 0 points
2:55 91-94 Matthew Dellavedova makes 6-foot two point shot (Anderson Varejao assists) - Ball Movement - 2 points
2:25 91-95 Tristan Thompson makes free throw 1 of 2
2:25 91-95 Tristan Thompson misses free throw 2 of 2 - Ball Movement - 1 point
2:23 91-95 Matthew Dellavedova bad pass (Shelvin Mack steals) - Ball Movement - 0 points
1:52 93-95 Kyrie Irving misses driving layup - Iso Ball - 0 points
1:28 93-95 Matthew Dellavedova steps out of bounds turnover - Ball Movement - 0 points
0:39 95-95 Kyrie Irving misses 26-foot three point jumper - Iso Ball - 0 points
0:26 95-95 Kyrie Irving misses driving layup - Iso Ball - 0 points
0:24 95-95 Anderson Varejao misses tip shot
0:00 95-95 Anderson Varejao misses 26-foot three point jumper

Ball Movement - 3 points in 4 possessions.
Iso Ball - 0 points in 5 possessions.

You tell me what was more effective.