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Kyrie Irving

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Kyrie feels naked without the ball in his hands. IMO, it is a "feeling" he needs to mature out of. If it does, the W's will start showing up than the L's. If it doesn't, then the Cavs need to know when to pull the trigger.
 
I'm withholding any comment on Kyrie from this point forward until Mike Brown learns what kind of game is being played in the NBA. If he can drop 39-40 points in regulation, I don't see him as the issue.

Mike Brown seemed to pull the strings well enough last night to have the Cavs up 7 with 6 minutes to play in regulation. He can't get on the floor and close the game out personally.
 
This team still sucks at defense, and it starts with our "superstar." Sloppy and lazy defensive efforts from Kyrie continue to happen throughout the game. That should not happen in his 3rd year. Its a big concern.
 
This team still sucks at defense, and it starts with our "superstar." Sloppy and lazy defensive efforts from Kyrie continue to happen throughout the game. That should not happen in his 3rd year. Its a big concern.

do you think he was ever asked to play defense before Mike Brown got here?
 
Kyrie got his streak started by hitting some mid range jumpers. Atlanta adjusted to that. once the adjustment is in place kyrie has two choices. . force the issue or take a bad shot or pass the ball and let someone else make a play or use the old give and go.

forcing the ball isnt the same as imposing ones will on the game. Kyrie does quite well at imposing his will on offense but he also forces the ball where he doesnt have to..

It would be nice if Kyrie could get the ball on the opposite court and pass it when he has runner in front of him instead of walking it up and losing the transition or running through 5 guys when he could of passed it off and got the frontcourt in time to still get a play oppurtunity.

someone keeps going on about Irvings turnovers and Waiters being the same but their not. If Kyries turnovers were just pure execution that would be understandable but they were from bad plays and bad decisions.

like other have said its about rythm. Kyrie goes crazy 4 or 5 possesion in a row. that good he is getting good looks for his skill set. but when its not there it isnt there. it take Irving another 2 or 3 possesions of forcing itbefore he starts passing again and what happens.. oh i finally got the ball i better do something.

voila hero ball is born
 
This team still sucks at defense, and it starts with our "superstar." Sloppy and lazy defensive efforts from Kyrie continue to happen throughout the game. That should not happen in his 3rd year. Its a big concern.

he is by no means a lock down defender but the man he is guarding is shooting 37% for the season. their help defense is laughable and there is no rim protector behind him, so he must be doing something right unless you want to say he's just been lucky.
 
What a bullshit rebuttal.

Why? When we hired him the first time LeBorn said he had never been taught to play defense before in his whole career. Is there any evidence Byron Scott ever taught the team real defense?
 
Why? When we hired him the first time LeBorn said he had never been taught to play defense before in his whole career. Is there any evidence Byron Scott ever taught the team real defense?

What about the other players who have only played for Scott and/or had to adjust from coach to coach? Thompson, Bennett, Waiters, Miles, etc. have all been asked to do the same 'new' things this year. None of them look nearly as uninterested and straight up bad on a regular basis as Kyrie does this far, IMO. He has to want to play defense every night. I've yet to see that. Mistakes are one thing, not committing is another.
 
What about the other players who have only played for Scott and/or had to adjust from coach to coach? Thompson, Bennett, Waiters, Miles, etc. have all been asked to do the same 'new' things this year. None of them look nearly as uninterested and straight up bad on a regular basis as Kyrie does this far, IMO. He has to want to play defense every night. I've yet to see that. Mistakes are one thing, not committing is another.

I clearly see him making more good defensive plays than you do. Stuff he just wasn't doing a year ago.

This isn't up to date, but his opponent's PER as of 12/15 was an average 15.0.

http://www.82games.com/1314/13CLE1.HTM#bypos

Under Byron Scott it was a poor 18.1 and 19.0

http://www.82games.com/1213/12CLE1.HTM#bypos
http://www.82games.com/1112/11CLE1.HTM#bypos

using the same data, from last year to this year - the two main guys who had only played for Byron Scott before Mike Brown arrived

Dion at SG has improved from 16.4 to 16.1 but has also added an impressive 13.2 against SFs in our 3 guard lineups
Tristan at PF has improved from 16.6 to 14.7

It'll be interesting to look at those numbers again when the site updates.
 
I clearly see him making more good defensive plays than you do. Stuff he just wasn't doing a year ago.

This isn't up to date, but his opponent's PER as of 12/15 was an average 15.0.

http://www.82games.com/1314/13CLE1.HTM#bypos

Under Byron Scott it was a poor 18.1 and 19.0

http://www.82games.com/1213/12CLE1.HTM#bypos
http://www.82games.com/1112/11CLE1.HTM#bypos

I discussed it earlier but guys still dribble right past him at will more often than not. The difference is that Byron Scott never implemented a team defense so that directly resulted in players scoring or passing directly to dunks. This year the team does a better job of rotating but the end result is usually either an open 3 or a second interior pass resulting in a good look at the rim. I agree that Kyrie has demonstrated more playmaking on that end of the floor. He's shown a nice ability to strip guys on the break and poke the ball away from guys in other situations. That allows my frustration.

Kyrie is demonstrating the ability to be a good defender if he ever wanted to on a consistent basis. Steve Nash, for example, never demonstrated any of this. He was bad and it never looked like he'd be capable of being good as a 1v1 defender. Kyrie has the quickness, in both hand and foot, to be a fantastic defender like Paul or Rondo. However, he has to have the will to do so and right now he's not even close to having it on a consistent basis.

I agree that he's gotten better, meaning he's actually awake on that end of the floor. However, the second he begins to understand how deadly they can become if he cuts off penetration without needing a switch to do it, this team is going to be much better in terms of stops and fast breaks. It starts with him on that end. Thibs always raved about how Rose bought into being "The head of the snake" on defense. Rose, like Kyrie, was never asked to play defense under Del Negro. I want to see Kyrie buy in. I haven't seen it yet.
 
I discussed it earlier but guys still dribble right past him at will more often than not. The difference is that Byron Scott never implemented a team defense so that directly resulted in players scoring or passing directly to dunks. This year the team does a better job of rotating but the end result is usually either an open 3 or a second interior pass resulting in a good look at the rim. I agree that Kyrie has demonstrated more playmaking on that end of the floor. He's shown a nice ability to strip guys on the break and poke the ball away from guys in other situations. That allows my frustration.

Kyrie is demonstrating the ability to be a good defender if he ever wanted to on a consistent basis. Steve Nash, for example, never demonstrated any of this. He was bad and it never looked like he'd be capable of being good as a 1v1 defender. Kyrie has the quickness, in both hand and foot, to be a fantastic defender like Paul or Rondo. However, he has to have the will to do so and right now he's not even close to having it on a consistent basis.

I agree that he's gotten better, meaning he's actually awake on that end of the floor. However, the second he begins to understand how deadly they can become if he cuts off penetration without needing a switch to do it, this team is going to be much better in terms of stops and fast breaks. It starts with him on that end. Thibs always raved about how Rose bought into being "The head of the snake" on defense. Rose, like Kyrie, was never asked to play defense under Del Negro. I want to see Kyrie buy in. I haven't seen it yet.

instead of frustration, you should be encouraged. Expect it to take a while. It took a full season for LeBron to play good defense, and a few seasons for him to become elite. Also be encouraged by the things he says after the game. He talks more about defense in one post game interview than he did in two years.
 
As much as I dislike his currrent hero ball at the end of games, Kyrie has been quietly turning into a better defender. Brown's teachings must really be rubbing off on him.

As for his hero ball, I think it has to do with his early success in his career at hitting game winners and taking over games late. Now he thinks he can and should do it every time the game is tight rather than playing normal team ball. However this mentality clearly cost us at least two if not three times in the double overtime versus Atlanta. He missed a good 5-6 shots and had a couple of turnovers through over-dribbling at crucial times when we could have effectively put the game away.
 
do you think he was ever asked to play defense before Mike Brown got here?

I'm sure Coach K tried to get him to play D for a few months in Durham. After that, he likely had an approximately 2.5-year break in his defensive instruction.
 
I'm sure Coach K tried to get him to play D for a few months in Durham. After that, he likely had an approximately 2.5-year break in his defensive instruction.

sure, he'd likely be a better defender already if he hadn't missed so much time in college.
 
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