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LeBron James

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Ohh, they still talk about that.

You know what the funny thing is?

Jordan wasn't even the best clutch/cockiest motherfucker to have graced the game of Basketball. It was Larry Bird. The sheer arrogance and audacity he had was something even Jordan didn't possess imo.

The haters may still say that, but I don't think the intensity LBJ showed in the 15-17 playoffs has ever been exceeded by anyone. Larry was a great competitor but simply didn't have the overall athleticism to compete all over the floor the way LBJ did.

His Finals stats and defensive intensity are/were simply insane. The dude does everything - at the same time. And to the point of utter physical exhaustion.
 
Again, Love has been fine in the pick and roll. What magical piece is out there to trade him for that would help the Cavs chances of beating Golden State?

Love's offense is needed against them to space the floor and give the Cavs room to also attack via the pick and roll. His rebounding is crucial because a team like Golden State can't be allowed to get multiple extra possessions.

We agree that the Cavs need to be able to match up with them better, but there's no player available to trade Love for that would increase our odds of beating them.
They alway put him in the pnr and we had to trap because he cant switch. And each time they would pass out of the trap and destroy the rest of our scrambling defense. If that is 'fine' then fine isn't good enough

His offense is okay. His shot creation isn't exactly priceless. They would switch smalls like Klay on him and he couldn't abuse them or command doubles like a big of his calibre should. His floor spacing is valuable though. No one is saying he isn't a good player but overall he just isn't a very impactful one against our primary competition

The FO had him on the trade block and will continue to do so if any worthwhile trade opportunities come again
 
Larry Hughes, Antawn Jamison, Chris Bosh, and Kevin Love -- two of those players are not like the other two!

Seriously, this is an interesting argument, but not sure it quite holds water when you look at it closely. Both KLove and Irving had high usage ratings this past year, showing that Lebron can share the ball. Same for DWade, if anything Lebron deferred to him too much in 2011. Both Bosh and KLove had an issue with post-up players interfering with Lebron's room to operate, and that issue would have been every bit as present if Lebron was playing PF in the interior like you want, in fact maybe more so.

LeBron doesn't have an issue with sharing the ball with other star players: so long as it's off of a pick n roll... or him dumping the ball off saying it's your turn, then backing up beyond the 3 pt line or running in the corner where he's no longer in the play.

When I think of the all-time greats like Duncan, Bird, Magic, Dirk, even at much lower individual volumes of scoring, their offensive presence had a huge positive impact on their teammates. Teammates could operate at relatively high individual capacity, because their style wasn’t so ball dominant nor did it require that the offense be structured completely around their strengths. They were able to space the floor and create gravity that pulled opponents away from their teammates. This allowed them to influence their team’s offensive efficiency in a very positive way. On every possession they were in the game, whether they were directly involved in the play or not. Those things don't always hold true with LeBron.

On the flip-side you have the All-time greats like Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Shaq who were able to will their team to championship's by their killer scoring mentality. Their teammates knew every night to expect a high volume of scoring which made it easier for them to know their role, picking and choosing their spots when to contribute. LeBron isn't the versatile scorer some make him out to be and too often he's lacked the killer - "I am going to impose my will upon you" mentality. He is super athletic and benefits a lot from isolation basketball because he is very limited at moving without the ball and creating jump shots. His post-up game isn't refined either. He is one of the best scorers, but in terms of versatility, he is nowhere near guys like Jordan, Kobe, Wade (in his prime), etc.
 
They alway put him in the pnr and we had to trap because he cant switch. And each time they would pass out of the trap and destroy the rest of our scrambling defense. If that is 'fine' then fine isn't good enough

His offense is okay. His shot creation isn't exactly priceless. They would switch smalls like Klay on him and he couldn't abuse them or command doubles like a big of his calibre should. His floor spacing is valuable though. No one is saying he isn't a good player but overall he just isn't a very impactful one against our primary competition

The FO had him on the trade block and will continue to do so if any worthwhile trade opportunities come again

Preach! Beware the KL pedastal stands tall around here!
 
LeBron's gotta up his defensive intensity. Cause no matter what these numbers are considered to be dropped on him and should take that personal.
DJmoa1oXoAAkfnT.jpg
Fans continue to live rent free in Coward's head.
 
They alway put him in the pnr and we had to trap because he cant switch. And each time they would pass out of the trap and destroy the rest of our scrambling defense. If that is 'fine' then fine isn't good enough

His offense is okay. His shot creation isn't exactly priceless. They would switch smalls like Klay on him and he couldn't abuse them or command doubles like a big of his calibre should. His floor spacing is valuable though. No one is saying he isn't a good player but overall he just isn't a very impactful one against our primary competition

The FO had him on the trade block and will continue to do so if any worthwhile trade opportunities come again

Yeah this just isn't very true. Kevin Love's drtg was near the top of the team in this past finals. The Cavs couldn't defend Durant with anyone consistently, which is why they lost the series. Replace Durant with Barnes, and the Cavs win that series. You know who spent next to no time at all on Durant? Love.

In fact, the Warriors attacked TT more than they attacked Love.

He did serious work in the paint when given the opportunity.

He was on the trading block? That has never been legitimately reported. In fact, the opposite has been.

You ignored my question though. Who can Kevin Love be moved for that gives the Cavs a better chance against Golden State than currently constructed?
 
LeBron doesn't have an issue with sharing the ball with other star players: so long as it's off of a pick n roll... or him dumping the ball off saying it's your turn, then backing up beyond the 3 pt line or running in the corner where he's no longer in the play.

When I think of the all-time greats like Duncan, Bird, Magic, Dirk, even at much lower individual volumes of scoring, their offensive presence had a huge positive impact on their teammates. Teammates could operate at relatively high individual capacity, because their style wasn’t so ball dominant nor did it require that the offense be structured completely around their strengths. They were able to space the floor and create gravity that pulled opponents away from their teammates. This allowed them to influence their team’s offensive efficiency in a very positive way. On every possession they were in the game, whether they were directly involved in the play or not. Those things don't always hold true with LeBron.

On the flip-side you have the All-time greats like Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Shaq who were able to will their team to championship's by their killer scoring mentality. Their teammates knew every night to expect a high volume of scoring which made it easier for them to know their role, picking and choosing their spots when to contribute. LeBron isn't the versatile scorer some make him out to be and too often he's lacked the killer - "I am going to impose my will upon you" mentality. He is super athletic and benefits a lot from isolation basketball because he is very limited at moving without the ball and creating jump shots. His post-up game isn't refined either. He is one of the best scorers, but in terms of versatility, he is nowhere near guys like Jordan, Kobe, Wade (in his prime), etc.

There's some interesting stuff in here, but it just doesn't hold together logically. I mean, Lebron's on-off stats show that he has a HUGE positive impact on the team's offensive rating when he is playing. Enormous impact, it was actually +20 when he was on court vs off court in last year's playoffs. We're talking the difference between a historically great offensive production and a pretty average production. This has been true most of the years when he played, although not as big a difference as this year.

In order for that to be true, one of three things must be true:

--Lebron is one of the greatest individual scorers of all time, if not the greatest
--Lebron creates tremendous gravity for his teammates such that he influences their offensive efficiency very positively
--we never put any other good players on the court when Lebron is sitting.

Your post denies that Lebron is a great individual scorer and denies that he creates gravity for his teammates. So what the hell accounts for his massive positive impact on the team's offense when he plays?

The only other explanation would be something in our substitution patterns such that we only play absolute end of bench scrubs when he sits. But that definitely isn't true.
 
There's some interesting stuff in here, but it just doesn't hold together logically. I mean, Lebron's on-off stats show that he has a HUGE positive impact on the team's offensive rating when he is playing. Enormous impact, it was actually +20 when he was on court vs off court in last year's playoffs. We're talking the difference between a historically great offensive production and a pretty average production. This has been true most of the years when he played, although not as big a difference as this year.

In order for that to be true, one of three things must be true:

--Lebron is one of the greatest individual scorers of all time, if not the greatest
--Lebron creates tremendous gravity for his teammates such that he influences their offensive efficiency very positively
--we never put any other good players on the court when Lebron is sitting.

Your post denies that Lebron is a great individual scorer and denies that he creates gravity for his teammates. So what the hell accounts for his massive positive impact on the team's offense when he plays?

The only other explanation would be something in our substitution patterns such that we only play absolute end of bench scrubs when he sits. But that definitely isn't true.

The numbers don't tell the whole story. Look at the way the team is built. Entirely to his liking, style of play, and perceived strengths. That's why it can't function whatsoever without him and another reason why Kyrie wanted out.
 
LeBron's biggest curse was that he was so good so soon, we were never really amongst the worst teams in the league once we got him. Due to that, we never had a good chance to be in contention for high lottery picks during the first two-three years of his career here.

OKC after getting Durant, still finished high in lottery picks and manage to get a Westbrook and Harden to surround Durant with. Us on the other hand, the best we managed to surround LeBron with was Mo Williams and Past His Prime Zo.

I have stopped thinking about what would happen next summer. Because its pointless, really. We can't do much about it. So, I am just going to enjoy the season like I always do because its been a pleasure watching LeBron and being a WITNESS.
Imagine if we got Dwight Howard and Chris Paul the following years...
 
LeBron's gotta up his defensive intensity. Cause no matter what these numbers are considered to be dropped on him and should take that personal.
DJmoa1oXoAAkfnT.jpg

One of the key differences between Bron/his fans and Durant/his fans is that I don't think anyone, Cavs or Heat fan alike, is in denial that LeBron thinks a lot about what people think of him, whereas Dubheads are in denial about it with #35 - look at the damage control they went into about the Manning quip and that he was "in on it."

Why isn't it possible that both KD was in on it, as is common in such cases, and it still struck a nerve with him?

KD and the Dubs in general try too hard to win off the court, as if their wins on it weren't enough...look at the frequent Twitter spats he has with fans, and direct shot he took at OKC fans recently with how Seattle fans "deserved to see [him] grow up in the league." Did Philadelphia fans "deserve" to see the Warriors "grow up with them" when they were "stolen" by the Bay Area long ago?

Likewise, this is a case where it is possible to both sympathize with Seattle's loss, and consider it hypocritical for the Warriors to attack OKC for it; and as the saying goes, "deserve's got nothing to do with it."
 
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I remember my dad talking about LeBron before the draft. He was saying how he was easily the best prospect ever to come straight out of high school and that he was a prodigy and the next Michael Jordan. He was pretty much right on the money. I mean he was just GUSHING about him in a way that was almost eerie how accurate he was.
 
He was referring Korver game 3. Biggest shot of his career. He can use that as motivation this year

I get this as a slip up, but still the past is in the past. Korver like Allen is due for his game changing shot. Keep that in mind.
 
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Yeah this just isn't very true. Kevin Love's drtg was near the top of the team in this past finals. The Cavs couldn't defend Durant with anyone consistently, which is why they lost the series. Replace Durant with Barnes, and the Cavs win that series. You know who spent next to no time at all on Durant? Love.

In fact, the Warriors attacked TT more than they attacked Love.

He did serious work in the paint when given the opportunity.

He was on the trading block? That has never been legitimately reported. In fact, the opposite has been.

You ignored my question though. Who can Kevin Love be moved for that gives the Cavs a better chance against Golden State than currently constructed?
Did this really need answering? The simple response is to look for upgrade opprtunities if they present themselves. If they don't, we stay put with IT and Love, not make a trade for the sake of it.

About the defense bit i think youre unable to differentiate team D from individual D. Getting burned by Durant doesn't make TT a bad defender, even LeBron couldn't guard him. On the contrary it's his defensive reputation that allows us to switch them unto KD. Meanwhile we would have to hide Love with trapping schemes (which ironically exposed us even further) to avoid having him guard KD or Curry. That's something that doesn't directly show up in stats. If it's all you use to judge defense then youll end up with a lot of dodgy conclusions

You're also in denial that he was ever on the trade block. Tells me all I need to know about where this conversation is going. Nowhere
 
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