OF-2022

[CDAV45]

Seems that our conversations get intertwined frequently and because of that some get lost in the shuffle. This is along the same lines as biggie's BP topic which was a good idea IMO.

Anyway, as it stands now the OF depth is Straw, Zimmer, Johnson, Mercado, HRam, Naylor, and occasionally Reyes. I think it's obvious that Straw has CF locked down. After that there's nothing but uncertainty. All of Zimmer, Johnson, Mercado, Naylor, and HRam have enough talent to keep us hopeful, but in the end are probably varying degrees of marginal players. It's hard to say which one(s) have caught the eye of those making the roster decisions, and I doubt any final decisions have been considered. I feel like this organization has been stuck with this issue for quite some time and I wonder what CA, MC, and Tito feel is the remedy. If they even think a "remedy" is needed. It's most likely they are waiting to see if the remainder of this season reveals anyone worth keeping.

I think most here know that I value strong hitters in the OF corners, but I have to admit that I love the defensive alignment when Mercado is in LF, Straw in CF, and Zimmer in RF. I don't think there is a better defensive OF in baseball TBH.

So who would be good targets in a trade or FA? Rumor has it Cleveland was talking to Cincinnati and Pittsburgh about Winker and Reynolds, but nothing came to immediate fruition.

I think we can expect to see Jones next season, but what should we expect from him? Are Gonzalez or Benson legitimate internal options? Am I missing any? Valera is likely a yr or 2 away yet so I'm not even considering him at this point.

Most of us may not be in agreement with how we'd address the issue, but most of us would probably agree that there is an issue. Ding Ding!

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I think we all agree Straw will be the every day centerfielder. From the statements I've seen about Zimmer recently, he is also firmly in the plans.

“Bradley’s continued progression and the consistency with which he’s approached his at-bats has been really good to see,” Antonetti said. “He’s working, and has settled in both with an approach at the plate and also some things with his swing that have now provided him a good foundation for consistent success.”

I have to think Harold Ramirez is in jeopardy. He's hitting .263/.708. He only has 12 walks in 262 at-bats resulting in an OBP of only .304. He doesn't get on base that much and he doesn't hit for power (6 home runs). He's below average defensively and has 3 stolen bases. A corner outfielder who does not provide much power or defense and has a low OBP is not really an asset.

Oscar Mercado is also vulnerable with a line of .238/.678 and a slugging percentage of .364. He brings defense in left and speed on the bases, but with no power and an on-base percentage of only .314 I can't see him as a corner outfielder. Even if he were playing Gold Glove centerfield it would be tough to put a .238 hitter with little pop in the lineup every day. I think the trade for Straw and Zimmer's emergence has pretty much sealed Mercado's fate, plus the fact that he's out of options.

For the corner spots I think we'll be seeing Zimmer, Naylor, and Johnson to start the season. That gives us two guys who can play center when Straw needs a day off or if he's injured. However, all three are left-handed so possibly Mercado or Oscar Gonzalez could force his way onto the team.

The big question is whether the Indians will try to make a major trade for a right-handed hitting outfielder (Zimmer, Naylor, Johnson, and Nolan Jones all hit left-handed) and also free up some roster spots for additional Rule 5 guys to be protected.

It would not surprise me if Zimmer were traded along with prospects for a right-handed outfield bat. The Indians love to sell high - when Phil Maton finally had some success this year they traded him. They managed to get rid of Kluber, Clevinger and Carrasco while their value was still high. Zimmer should be playing centerfield to maximize his value. Some team may see him as a centerfielder with incredible range and a great arm who can hit 20 home runs with a .350 OBP and 40 stolen bases playing everyday. Throw in some pitching prospects, which everybody wants, and maybe a guy like Reynolds isn't a pipe dream.

 

[sportscoach]

I think we all agree Straw will be the every day centerfielder. From the statements I've seen about Zimmer recently, he is also firmly in the plans.

“Bradley’s continued progression and the consistency with which he’s approached his at-bats has been really good to see,” Antonetti said. “He’s working, and has settled in both with an approach at the plate and also some things with his swing that have now provided him a good foundation for consistent success.”

I have to think Harold Ramirez is in jeopardy. He's hitting .263/.708. He only has 12 walks in 262 at-bats resulting in an OBP of only .304. He doesn't get on base that much and he doesn't hit for power (6 home runs). He's below average defensively and has 3 stolen bases. A corner outfielder who does not provide much power or defense and has a low OBP is not really an asset.

Oscar Mercado is also vulnerable with a line of .238/.678 and a slugging percentage of .364. He brings defense in left and speed on the bases, but with no power and an on-base percentage of only .314 I can't see him as a corner outfielder. Even if he were playing Gold Glove centerfield it would be tough to put a .238 hitter with little pop in the lineup every day. I think the trade for Straw and Zimmer's emergence has pretty much sealed Mercado's fate, plus the fact that he's out of options.

For the corner spots I think we'll be seeing Zimmer, Naylor, and Johnson to start the season. That gives us two guys who can play center when Straw needs a day off or if he's injured. However, all three are left-handed so possibly Mercado or Oscar Gonzalez could force his way onto the team.

The big question is whether the Indians will try to make a major trade for a right-handed hitting outfielder (Zimmer, Naylor, Johnson, and Nolan Jones all hit left-handed) and also free up some roster spots for additional Rule 5 guys to be protected.

It would not surprise me if Zimmer were traded along with prospects for a right-handed outfield bat. The Indians love to sell high - when Phil Maton finally had some success this year they traded him. They managed to get rid of Kluber, Clevinger and Carrasco while their value was still high. Zimmer should be playing centerfield to maximize his value. Some team may see him as a centerfielder with incredible range and a great arm who can hit 20 home runs with a .350 OBP and 40 stolen bases playing everyday. Throw in some pitching prospects, which everybody wants, and maybe a guy like Reynolds isn't a pipe dream.

Johnson and Zimmer have barely played in LF, Both guys are always in RF first.

So if Naylor is back in the OF, he will be in LF, them you would have Straw in CF, then Zimmer in RF at least at first... Where is the room for Johnson? Hence why I feel one of those two would get traded... Mercado is a RH bat, so I think for 22 he gets another shot since he is a plus defender and our best OF in LF...

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Johnson and Zimmer have barely played in LF, Both guys are always in RF first.

So if Naylor is back in the OF, he will be in LF, them you would have Straw in CF, then Zimmer in RF at least at first... Where is the room for Johnson? Hence why I feel one of those two would get traded... Mercado is a RH bat, so I think for 22 he gets another shot since he is a plus defender and our best OF in LF...

Left field is not a premium defensive position like C, SS, and CF. I don't know if we really want a guy with a low batting average and on-base percentage and no power to speak of in left field, even if he's great defensively.

The Indians have been willing to play weak hitters at catcher as long as they're great defensively, but in general they like to have bats at the other eight spots in the batting order. For example, Amed Rosario is not that good defensively but they're keeping him at short over Gimenez because they like his bat.

They traded for Straw because they weren't getting enough offense out of Zimmer and Mercado in center, although Zimmer has come on since Straw was acquired. Before trading for Straw they tried Amed in center.

If the Indians are not willing to settle for sub-par offensive production even at premium defensive positions, why would they do it in left field?

If they don't make a trade I could see a Naylor/Harold Ramirez platoon in left with Zimmer in right. Both Naylor and Harold have an OPS of around .800 against opposite-handed pitching (.805 and .800, to be exact). But Daniel Johnson may have something to say about that.

 

[Urban]

Harold is at the bottom of the list for me. Very low walk rate, average power, and poor defense. Caps his ceiling significantly

Think he's destined for career high season WAR of like 0.8. Unless he reworks his swing to hit more fly balls and succeeds in doing so. He does hit the ball hard.

 

[KluberSociety]

I really don't want to see Naylor in the OF. I've seen enough to know that is defense is horrendous and worse than Harold (at least Harold is fast-ish). And last time he was out there he got hurt for a long period of time. I'm not the biggest Naylor believer in general but I think we've got to see him as a 1B.

The whole thing about "corner outfields can't be defense oriented" just seems bogus to me. If you put a CF in LF/RF they will probably be much better than the average LF/RF in the league and thus provide value in their own by outplaying them. It might not be optimal, per se, but if we're playing with what we got then that might be our best option.

For now I'd say Straw in CF and Zimmer at least has mostly earned his spot versus RHP. That's still just 1.5 OF. I'm so non-thrilled with our "outfielders" that I can see Amed or Miller playing a corner position but Miller would first have to show he can hit MLB pitching which he hasn't done a great job of. Still we've got a wealth of infielders so we might have to shift some into the OF. I really just don't see anyone from that list as much more than "replacement" out there. Mercado and Harold might be the better two options, what do we do, bat Mercado 9th and pinch hit in key situations? Start Harold and put Mercado in as a defensive replacement? I don't think they're really worth 2 roster spots but could do something like that.

 

[MadThinker88]

I realize some might call me a "broken record" (old timer terminology) for bringing this up, but a lot of this discussion is spinning of wheels until the 40 man roster is figured out in November.

Currently on the 40 man roster: Straw, Zimmer, Daniel Johnson, Mercado, HRam, Naylor, and occasionally Reyes & Nolan Jones.
As many as half those names could be gone with the roster deadline in November.

Possible internal additions: Valera, Palacios, Kwan, Will Benson, Oscar Gonzalez, Alexfri Planez, Alex Call, host of others..

Once that November deadline passes, there will a better idea of the roster options to discuss who fills what spot..

 

[CATS44]

Menzel says that the Indians inquired about multiple impact OF bats that would have cost an arm and a leg in prospect capital, but not that much in initial money.

I dont think thats a surprise, and I think that's the course the FO will pursue. In any case, one outfield position is very likely to be manned by a veteran bat from outside the org....leaving one corner spot left.

Whether anybody likes it or not, Naylor is gonna be on the team if he is healthy. The FO will not go into next year without a backup plan for Bradley at first...and they are not gonna spend several million dollars on one in free agency. There is no room on a roster for a bench player not capable of playing anything, but 1B.

If the FO doesn't bring in a second corner OF, we know the candidates. We will need one LH and one RH bat. That means...

Mercado vs Harold
Zimmer vs Johnson vs (possibly, but doubtful, Jones)

IMO we are talking about platoon bats in this group, along with defense and speed.

Pick your poison.

 

[LL3]

I realize some might call me a "broken record" (old timer terminology) for bringing this up, but a lot of this discussion is spinning of wheels until the 40 man roster is figured out in November.

Currently on the 40 man roster: Straw, Zimmer, Daniel Johnson, Mercado, HRam, Naylor, and occasionally Reyes & Nolan Jones.
As many as half those names could be gone with the roster deadline in November.

Possible internal additions: Valera, Palacios, Kwan, Will Benson, Oscar Gonzalez, Alexfri Planez, Alex Call, host of others..

Once that November deadline passes, there will a better idea of the roster options to discuss who fills what spot..

Buzzkill.

 

[KluberSociety]

For 40 man considerations I don't really think it changes much beyond what we expect them to be in the near future.

I see whoever we keep as more of a stopgap measure than an investment in the future because the whole group of players is fairly low ceiling. We have enough player who can play OF knocking at the door for 2022/2023 so I'm not going to prioritize rostering a younger player for the "well they might be better in 2023".

Someone like Johnson isn't good now and probably isn't going to be good in 2023 with some risk of "figuring it out" but I really just think it's too risky to hand him the slot to start out 2022.

 

[bs80]

Just curious, is there a strong argument against a Zimmer/Mercado platoon? I'm much less knowledgeable about baseball compared to other sports, but it seems like a pretty obvious solution to me.

 

[sportscoach]

Just curious, is there a strong argument against a Zimmer/Mercado platoon? I'm much less knowledgeable about baseball compared to other sports, but it seems like a pretty obvious solution to me.

There isn't a good argument against it.

Personally I feel like an OF of Naylor, Straw, Zimmer with Mercado on the bench is a very possible OF setup if the Indians don't acquire an OF via trade or free agency.

The problem is people want more offense since Zimmer and Mercado of late really have more value as defensive guys than offensive.

 

[33Y0]

Zimmer vs righties: .262, 5 HR, 23 RBI, 18 BB, 61 K, .376 OBP, .409 SLG, .786 OPS
Mercado vs righties: .207, 2 HR, 7 RBI, 7 BB, 14 K, .270 OBP, .341 SLG, .611 OPS

Zimmer vs lefties: .215, 1 HR, 4 RBI, 6 BB, 26 K, .297 OBP, .277 SLG, .574 OPS
Mercado vs lefties: .279, 1 HR, 4 RBI, 8 BB, 10 K, .371 OBP, .393 SLG, .765 OPS

*Stats for this season

 

[Lee]

Zimmer vs righties: .262, 5 HR, 23 RBI, 18 BB, 61 K, .376 OBP, .409 SLG, .786 OPS
Mercado vs righties: .207, 2 HR, 7 RBI, 7 BB, 14 K, .270 OBP, .341 SLG, .611 OPS

Zimmer vs lefties: .215, 1 HR, 4 RBI, 6 BB, 26 K, .297 OBP, .277 SLG, .574 OPS
Mercado vs lefties: .279, 1 HR, 4 RBI, 8 BB, 10 K, .371 OBP, .393 SLG, .765 OPS

*Stats for this season

Are you suggesting a platoon? lol

 

[33Y0]

Are you suggesting a platoon? lol

I'm giving stats to support that.. and tbh, I don't think it would be a terrible idea. At least even for the rest of the season to see if it's a viable option going forward.