Racial Tension in the U.S.

[The Human Q-Tip]

It's another data point.

You didn't answer the question. Do you think what the police officer said -- "we only shoot black people" is true?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Again, it's important that we believe and listen to our fellow countrymen.

Well, unless they're cops. Or George Zimmerman.

What happens when our fellow countrymen disagree on the facts? How can we "believe" two directly conflicting versions of events?

 

[Kyrie4MVP0202]

It's another data point.

Again, it's important that we believe and listen to our fellow countrymen.

The cop was very clearly being facetious and was basically pointing to the amount of hate cops have to deal with in direct response to the womans fear of being shot.

This only bolsters his own inappropriate response and makes what he is saying true...

Nobody can watch that video and say he said that with malicious intentions.

 

[Mr. Orange]

You didn't answer the question. Do you think what the police officer said -- "we only shoot black people" is true?

Of course it isn't true. There is a snuff film video going around of a cop executing a white person. But that doesn't mean police are not quicker to use violence against minorities, particularly blacks.

Remember, it is important we believe these citizens and that our first reaction is not to discredit them. That is what is very alarming about the response here.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Of course it isn't true.

Then if it isn't true, why are you using it as a "data point"?

There is a snuff film video going around of a cop executing a white person. But that doesn't mean police are not quicker to use violence against minorities, particularly blacks.

What does that have to do with the cop's statement, that everyone involved -- including the cop -- knows was not true. The article from the WaPo you posted even had the attorney saying the officer was using it as a joke, but that it was inappropriate.

Do you have evidence that this cop that you are using as your "data point" has ever shot anyone, black or white? if you're going to consider that clearly facetious statement as some kind of "data point" anyway, then here's another "data point":

Murder charge in 'cold-blooded assassination' of US policeman

Shannon Miles, a 30-year-old black male with a long criminal history, had been charged with capital murder, said Hickman.

"He does have previous criminal history that includes charges for resisting arrest, trespass, evading detention and disorderly conduct with a firearm," Hickman added.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-officer-gunned-down-cold-blooded-shooting-police-143120228.html

Remember, it is important we believe these citizens and that our first reaction is not to discredit them. That is what is very alarming about the response here.

You keep saying this as if it is self-evidently true, when it clearly is not.

Cops are citizens. Do you believe them?

George Zimmerman is a citizen. Did you believe him?

Dorian Johnson is a citizen. Should we have believed him? Fuck, it was the reflexive assumption that his version of events was true that led to the riots in Ferguson.

We shouldn't believe shit, from anybody, until there is actually something concrete to support it. Else we're going to fall victim to both deliberate lies, and honest mistakes of facts. And then when you try to reconcile how to "believe" two citizens who are telling contradictory versions of events....it's not possible.

 

[Mr. Orange]

Well, unless they're cops. Or George Zimmerman.

What happens when our fellow countrymen disagree on the facts? How can we "believe" two directly conflicting versions of events?

Let's use George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin (who conveniently cannot tell his side of the story) to discredit all of the other cases, evidence, and statistics...

I'm not saying that cops are all bad guys, but we have plenty of evidence that there are racist police. Why would we ignore this? Why is our first instinct to discredit and to not believe?

I listen to the facts of each case....Trayvon and Michael Brown seemed to have instigated or escalated by the deceased. (Well Zimmerman seemed to have instigated as he was role playing as a cop)

Philando Castile, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner, Samuel DuBose, Walter Scott... these are all VERY suspect actions by the police. And those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

 

[Kyrie4MVP0202]

Philando Castile, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner, Samuel DuBose, Walter Scott... these are all VERY suspect actions by the police. And those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

All of these people have one thing in common besides Rice. They were breaking laws.

Orange, that is FIVE people in how many years? Sixish?

This tells me there is not a country wide problem of racist cops shooting black people. It literally indicates the opposite. We are a country of 350 million people with billions upon billions of moments in time and this is all you can come up with?

Even if you were to rattle off 500 people it would STILL be a grain of sand of instances that cops have unjustly shot a person based on their color.

You also notably left off Mike Brown in which the entire BLM movement is based upon even in the face of overwhelming physical evidence that he was responsible for getting himself shot.

The attack on police needs to cease.

 

[OptimusPrime]

All of these people have one thing in common besides Rice. They were breaking laws.

Orange, that is FIVE people in how many years? Sixish?

This tells me there is not a country wide problem of racist cops shooting black people. It literally indicates the opposite. We are a country of 350 million people with billions upon billions of moments in time and this is all you can come up with?

Even if you were to rattle off 500 people it would STILL be a grain of sand of instances that cops have unjustly shot a person based on their color.

You also notably left off Mike Brown in which the entire BLM movement is based upon even in the face of overwhelming physical evidence that he was responsible for getting himself shot.

The attack on police needs to cease.

I've cited at least a dozen on this site over the years other than the ones mentioned. I read new ones every day. They weren't all black victims though. So would it be a "grain of sand" for instances where cops unjustly shot a person based on their color? No, but that is just one of many reasons they unjustly shoot people. The attack on police needs more than black people involved in it.

 

[Kyrie4MVP0202]

I've cited at least a dozen on this site over the years other than the ones mentioned. I read new ones every day. They weren't all black victims though. So would it be a "grain of sand" for instances where cops unjustly shot a person based on their color? No, but that is just one of many reasons they unjustly shoot people. The attack on police needs more than black people involved in it.

12 is not a large number. You are literally telling me that there is basically not a problem at all except for a dozen or so cases.

It actually tells me that we have the greatest armed police force in the world where firearms are legal to own.

Your last line says it all. Attack? Come on man.

 

[Mr. Orange]

All of these people have one thing in common besides Rice. They were breaking laws.

Orange, that is FIVE people in how many years? Sixish?

This tells me there is not a country wide problem of racist cops shooting black people. It literally indicates the opposite. We are a country of 350 million people with billions upon billions of moments in time and this is all you can come up with?

Even if you were to rattle off 500 people it would STILL be a grain of sand of instances that cops have unjustly shot a person based on their color.

You also notably left off Mike Brown in which the entire BLM movement is based upon even in the face of overwhelming physical evidence that he was responsible for getting himself shot.

The attack on police needs to cease.

LOL

This is rich. "The attacks on police need to cease." No buddy, police need to protect and serve, wear body cameras, and only use excessive force when necessary. They must be held accountable. Community policing has proven to be the most effective and safest law enforcement. The militarization of the police has not been effective.

Protect and serve. Public servants. They serve the public. I like most cops. We are talking about the bad apples. Remember, it is important we believe what our neighbors and friends are telling us.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Let's use George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin (who conveniently cannot tell his side of the story) to discredit all of the other cases, evidence, and statistics... I'm not saying that cops are all bad guys, but we have plenty of evidence that there are racist police. Why would we ignore this? Why is our first instinct to discredit and to not believe?

Against my better judgment, I'm going to try to explain this one more time so that it hopefully sinks in. Probably a fool's errand, though. But here goes anyway:

These discussions all begin with someone like you posting an accusation and treating it as true. Which isn't a surprise, because you've openly stated that we should believe all of them. Therefore, the response to your assumption that a story is true is to raise the issue that it may not be true, and that we probably need more facts. At which you point you go off and rant about why everybody's assumption is to disbelieve.

And that's exactly where you get it wrong. The problem isn't that we disbelieve. What we're actually doing is pointing out that judgment should be withheld until accusations can be verified or refuted. The problem is that you make the unwarranted assumption that the accusations are true, then object when people point out that they may not be. Your kind of "everyone should be believed" mindset is what enabled that asshole Dorian Johnson to trigger a riot with a lie.

tl;dr -- As long as you keep assuming that all these stories are true when reported, other posters are rightly going to keep pointing out to you that they may not be.

 

[Kyrie4MVP0202]

LOL

This is rich. "The attacks on police need to cease." No buddy, police need to protect and serve, wear body cameras, and only use excessive force when necessary. They must be held accountable. Community policing has proven to be the most effective and safest law enforcement. The militarization of the police has not been effective.

Protect and serve. Public servants. They serve the public. I like most cops. We are talking about the bad apples. Remember, it is important we believe what our neighbors and friends are telling us.

No, it is more important to use factual evidence that there is a nation wide crisis with cops.

If we are to listen to peoples takes on things then Mike Brown would be a hero and the shooting officer would be spending a majority of his life in prison.

About a half dozen or so witnesses to that crime flat out lied to the police about what happened. I prefer to use real facts as evidence.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

About a half dozen or so witnesses to that crime flat out lied to the police about what happened. I prefer to use real facts as evidence.

I read the entirety of the Ferguson report that addressed the shooting. What was even more troubling was that there were a number of black people who saw what actually happened, knew the truth, but were afraid to report it to the police because they feared retaliation/backlash from others in the community.

Just think about that for a second. Eyewitness viewpoints by black people that do not place blame on police are being suppressed. The activists dominate the discussion, and ordinary people are scared into silence. After all, who wants to be an Uncle Tom or a snitch? That suppression of the truth will inevitably create a false narrative on a larger scale, which we are now being told we are obliged to believe anyway.

 

[Mr. Orange]

No, it is more important to use factual evidence that there is a nation wide crisis with cops.

If we are to listen to peoples takes on things then Mike Brown would be a hero and the shooting officer would be spending a majority of his life in prison.

About a half dozen or so witnesses to that crime flat out lied to the police about what happened. I prefer to use real facts as evidence.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...ficer-charged-with-filing-false-police-report

Hey look a cop lied.

So we probably should NEVER believe the police right?

Of course not. So just stop with whatever it is you are doing.

 

[Kyrie4MVP0202]

I read the entirety of the Ferguson report that addressed the shooting. What was even more troubling was that there were a number of black people who saw what actually happened, knew the truth, but were afraid to report it to the police because they feared retaliation/backlash from others in the community.

Just think about that for a second. Eyewitness viewpoints by black people that do not place blame on police are being suppressed. The activists dominate the discussion, and ordinary people are scared into silence. After all, who wants to be an Uncle Tom or a snitch? That suppression of the truth will inevitably create a false narrative on a larger scale, which we are now being told we are obliged to believe anyway.

Here in Painesville city I see the same shit. The other day I was on Facebook and I kept seeing all these quotes about freeing someone from prison.

So then I saw that it was a guy I went to school with and he shot at someone and tried stealing his or her drugs and money.

I mean... WHAT?! Free him? He almost killed someone...

There is something incredibly wrong going on within some communities and how they view life of crime as something they should be able to get away with.

It is incredibly sad to see.