Speculation? - Varejao to T'Wolves For Derrick Williams and Luke Ridnour

[mofire]

How is everyone getting screwed? The Magic are the only ones who get a shabby deal imo. Minnesota would be in the playoffs with that lineup, the Lakers would be title contenders, and the Cavs are in the playoffs as well.

There is no way the magic would trade Howard take Gasols big deal back and keep hedo and jrich. Your proposed deal defeats the purpose for Orlando trading Howard which is shedding salary and accumulating picks and prospects during that process. Secondly the Lakers will not trade away gasol and Bynum it makes no sense on their part, in fact they are better off not doing the trade.

 

[ricezilla]

How is everyone getting screwed? The Magic are the only ones who get a shabby deal imo. Minnesota would be in the playoffs with that lineup, the Lakers would be title contenders, and the Cavs are in the playoffs as well.

How? Let's see.

Lakers aren't going to trade both Bynum and Gasol for Howard.

The Varejao for Willaims rumor is BS. Wolves already have Pekovic.

Cavs give up only Andy, Zeller, a first rounder and crappy seconds but yet get back Bynum and Derrick Williams? Come on, that's just unrealistic.

 

[jmuxl]

I like the straight trade Williams, Ridnour, and a protected 1st for Andy and a Second Rounder

 

[CleveRocks]

I like the straight trade Williams, Ridnour, and a protected 1st for Andy and a Second Rounder

I would tell you that is a completely homer trade that Minnesota would never do, but we are talking about Kahn here.

I don't think a second rounder makes a lot of sense for Minny, as they already have half a dozen. My guess is that if there were any legs to this, Minny is looking to give up a second and get back a first. I would have to wonder about the Cavs assessment of Derrick Williams after a year in the NBA. Right now they look pretty smart for not taking Williams at 1 and taking TT at 4. Essentially they got equal value, at least so far. If the Cavs actually had Williams rated higher than Tristan, well then I could see them giving up something like the Sactown first and AV for DW, but to take Luke's contract, I would want more than a second back. That is where the deal falls apart for normal GM's. But you never know with Kahn.

I think the trade makes some sense for Minny, especially if we added and Boobie and possible Samardo to AV. While they have a very good front line in Love and Pekovic, they get thin very quickly, and they could use a guard with a deadeye three. Of course we get younger, and if Derrick can really play the three, then we get better, although still thin at Center. I just don't think the two teams would be on the same page in terms of draft picks...

 

[Soda]

I can't believe this thread, at some point, had an argument based around doing a Varejao for Rubio trade...

So far below the standard I have for this forum.

 

[Kouki]

I can't believe this thread, at some point, had an argument based around doing a Varejao for Rubio trade...

So far below the standard I have for this forum.

That's what happens when you get a baseless rumor thread....take a joke...

 

[JMcCurry08]

Kahn turned down a trade for Andrew Bynum. He's crazy if he does this deal

 

[Randolphkeys]

Some of you guys have a pretty high value on Williams. After a very disappointing season in Minny, I don't know if that is still justified:

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/07/26/wolves-derrick-williams/index.html

Writing appears to be on wall for Wolves' Williams

Posted Jul 26 2012 10:16AM

So now it's Andrei Kirilenko, possibly at the wild sum of $20 million for two seasons plus a player option for a third, according to Yahoo! Sports. Before that, it was Nicolas Batum, speaking of wild offers. And Chase Budinger, in a semi-pricey trade.

But let's face it. This is really about Derrick Williams.

How can it not be? The Timberwolves have spent the offseason stabbing at small forward after small forward, by any means possible. Sign. Trade. Sign-and-trade. Restricted free agents. Unrestricted free agents. Americans. Imports.

While most teams clear a path for a No. 2 selection heading into his second season, the Timberwolves are searching the globe for a new permanent starter. They weren't going to strain the salary cap to pry restricted free agent Batum from the Trail Blazers -- reports were four years and $46.5 million, though Portland GM Neil Olshey said the dollar amount was wrongly inflated -- to be a backup. Kirilenko, who can also play power forward when Minnesota goes small with Kevin Love at center, wouldn't leave a starring role with CSKA Moscow in his native Russia to mentor Williams. (Aside: By the end of AK-47's 10 seasons in Utah, the Jazz no longer considered him a standout defender. A good shot blocker for a small forward, but not able to stay in front of his man enough.)

The Timberwolves are one season into Williams and they're not hiding any concerns about his direction. Just maybe the heavy-handed attempt at Batum, followed by a willingness to reportedly invest eight figures a year to lure Kirilenko back to the NBA is confirmation, both after giving up a decent trade chip, the No. 18 pick in the draft, to the Rockets for Budinger. But if that requires a little too much reading between the lines, there is always the image of coach Rick Adelman as an NBA TV guest during the Timberwolves-Clippers Summer League game July 16 in Las Vegas, sledgehammer barely concealed under the table.

"He wants to be a three man," Adelman said on the broadcast of Williams losing 15 pounds since last season, according to a transcript in the Minneapolis Star Tribune. "To be a three man, he's going to have to be much more active and handle the ball and defend that spot. We're trying to give him the opportunity to see what he can do because he can play both spots. He can't just be a jump shooter at the three spot. He has to pound the ball inside and go to the boards. He's bigger than most three men and stronger than most three men. He's got to use those abilities.

"He does float. He can't do it. He's got to be aggressive all the time. He's got the ability. He's quicker than four men, but he avoids contact. He can't just settle for jump shots. He can be a player in this league but he can't be on cruise control. I told him coming into this thing, 'You're not here for a workout, you're here to dominate.' "

Told it didn't sound as if he was sold on Williams at small forward, Adelman said, "I'm definitely not sold on him. He's never played it. He's got to go and prove he can do it. If he can do that, certainly I'll use him there because he's got some skills there. Going to the boards and rebounding, that's on him. He's got to be a factor on the boards."

No reading between the lines necessary.

Later that night, after the game, Williams appeared upbeat and focused. The Batum offer sheet was heading toward the conclusion the Trail Blazers had promised all along, that they would match. The play for Kirilenko had either not started or had not yet become public.

"I don't even think about it like that," he said when asked about the level of commitment from the Timberwolves. "Like I said, they can do whatever they want to do. I'm just going to keep getting better each and every year, and hopefully I do stick. I believe I can be a good player in this league and I never doubt myself.
That's a good thing about myself. I don't doubt myself in anything."

"Do you think they're doubting you?"

"I don't know," Williams replied. "That's a good question. If they are, then I'll just use it to add fuel to the fire."

Playing power forward, behind Love or in the small lineup, is tougher with the drop from weighing in the high-240s at the end of last season to the low-230s in Summer League. An emerging, and even leading, role at small forward, a reasonable expectation a year after going second in the draft, is much tougher if the current trajectory continues (Minnesota also acquired Dante Cunningham in a seperate trade with the Grizzlies) and the Kirilenko deal is finalized. This is not strictly about Kirilenko and Budinger, though. This is about Williams.

How can it not be?

Scott Howard-Cooper has covered the NBA since 1988. You can e-mail him here and follow him on twitter.

 

[CleveRocks]

Some of you guys have a pretty high value on Williams. After a very disappointing season in Minny, I don't know if that is still justified:

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/07/26/wolves-derrick-williams/index.html

Well if they are trying to dump him and we get a first to take him and ridnour, I think we would take that gamble. Worst case he becomes Antawn 2.0.. That is an asset, and a first from Minny for a second is also an asset. I am all about assets...

 

[Stark]

If all we had to give up was Andy, I'd do this deal in a heartbeat.

 

[AMC]

How? Let's see.

Lakers aren't going to trade both Bynum and Gasol for Howard.

The Varejao for Willaims rumor is BS. Wolves already have Pekovic.

Cavs give up only Andy, Zeller, a first rounder and crappy seconds but yet get back Bynum and Derrick Williams? Come on, that's just unrealistic.

Dumbest reason anyone could ever think of. Ever heard of a big man off the bench? Like Andy circa 2006-2010.

 

[OptimusPrime]

I don't want anything to do with Williams until he understands that he is a 4 and will never be anything else.

 

[randymoss1881]

i could see minny doing this trade. They signed AK47 and they have buldinger there who adelemen loves, they were in playoff contention last year before rubio went down and with Love speaking out about moving on if they dont start winning they could use Av who produces Ws with his hustle and grit. They also have made moves (roy and AK47) showing that they are aimming for the playoffs this year. Also if they wanted to get rid of bareas contract we could give them gibson who is an expering contract who can still play at a good level

 

[Jack Brickman]

This trade almost makes too much sense to ever happen.

The Timberwolves have been forced into "win now" mode, primarily as a result of Kevin Love's threats that the team needs to begin competing or else. Quite frankly, they just don't have time to wait for Derrick Williams to develop or learn to play the small forward. He may become a great player, but not soon enough to be of any real use to the Wolves. They need to push forward now, not in a few years. Varejao would fit perfectly in the Wolves' backcourt with Love and Pekovic. He's the perfect defensive-minded hustler to play with either Love or Pek, and he can do it all without ever demanding plays called for him. He'd make their defense much better, and would help compensate for some of Love's shortcomings in that area. He would also take Minnesota one step closer to constructing an entirely white team that is actually pretty good, which is just damned impressive.

The Cavs are in the opposite position. They're in rebuilding mode and looking to get younger. I love Varejao as much as the next Cavs' fan, but I think we all need to realize that he's in his prime right now. We're not going to be competing while he is still in his prime. As great as he is and as many intangibles as he provides, it makes sense to trade him now while his value is as high as it will probably ever be. I'm not entirely convinced Williams can play the three, but unlike Minnesota we have the time to give him the chance to earn some legitimate minutes there and see how he develops. Ridnour (or Barea) is a throw in, but either player would provide an adequate back-up guard for our rotation.

I agree with those that said this is probably the best deal we'll get for Varejao. If these rumors have any merit, this would be an excellent trade that makes one team better now and another team better long-term. That's a good trade.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I don't want anything to do with Williams until he understands that he is a 4 and will never be anything else.

He might become a viable three in a few years, if he works his ass off on all aspects of being a perimeter player. It's possible. It's more important for him to listen to everything Rick Adelman, a player's coach who has nearly a .600 winning percentage in the NBA, has to say. He's one of the easy guys to play for and win. He could also start figuring it out that he is a power forward and doesn't have to drift to the perimeter like a puss.

If you are ready to make this trade without a single moment for pause, ask yourself if you have ever heard a single coach talk about Anderson Varejao the way Rick Adelman -a player's coach and a winner- has talked about Williams after only one frustrating year. Varejao is in his prime and is a defensive big man. Every team needs one of those. Do the Cavs need a guy without a position who doesn't listen to advice from his coach? Not without at least two first rounders coming back, they don't.