Star Wars 8: The Last Jedi

[Lyst]

Not quite sure the source still? Defeating Palpatine proves only he is better with the lightsaber than Palpatine. Not Yoda.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Umm yea.

Star Wars: Attack of the Clones.

Didn't matter what Attack of the Clones said. He was freaking Samuel L. Jackson. No way in hell he wouldn't be dominating other mortals with a lightsaber.

 

[gourimoko]

Not quite sure the source still? Defeating Palpatine proves only he is better with the lightsaber than Palpatine. Not Yoda.

Bro, it's specifically stated in Attack of the Clones that Mace Windu is the best of the lightsaber users in the Jedi; Obi-Wan mentioned this to Anakin.

There's additional sources if you need.

 

[Lyst]

Bro, it's specifically stated in Attack of the Clones that Mace Windu is the best of the lightsaber users in the Jedi; Obi-Wan mentioned this to Anakin.

Trying to find this.....

All I can find is he was "One of the Best" that the Jedi ever produced. Nowhere stating he WAS the best.

 

[gourimoko]

Trying to find this.....

All I can find is he was "One of the Best" that the Jedi ever produced. Nowhere stating he WAS the best.

Mace Windu was a male Korun Human Jedi Master of legendary status who was the Master of the Order in the days leading up to the Battle of Geonosis, after which he gave the title to Grand Master Yoda. Hailing from the world of Haruun Kal, Mace Windu served as one of the last members of the Jedi High Council before the Great Jedi Purge. Serving on the Council, Windu was often regarded as second only to the Grand Master Yoda, though Windu was eight centuries Yoda's junior. Windu's wisdom and power were considered legendary by many, as were the weight of his words.

Trained as a Jedi Guardian, Windu was considered to be one of the best swordsmen in the history of the Jedi Order and had created the modern seventh form of lightsaber combat, Vaapad along with fellow Jedi Sora Bulq. He was the only practitioner of the form who did not fall to the dark side. Windu served the Jedi Order his entire life, training several Jedi, including Depa Billaba and Echuu Shen-Jon.

It was Master Windu who led two hundred and twelve Jedi into combat at the Battle of Geonosis and slew the infamous bounty hunter Jango Fett. He continued to serve the Republic throughout the Clone Wars, often on the frontlines of fierce fighting, where he led Republic forces as a High Jedi General. He would distinguish himself across many battlefronts, most notably on Dantooine, though he would distinguish himself on Ryloth, Null, Boz Pity and Haruun Kal amongst others. In the final days of the war, Windu confronted and defeated Darth Sidious in a difficult duel, after being informed by Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker that Sidious and Supreme Chancellor Palpatine were the same person. He was ultimately betrayed by Skywalker and subsequently killed by Sidious, falling to his death from the window of Sidious's office.

 

[Lyst]

I've read all of that? It's highly assumptive to state he was the best lightsaber user alive.

Jedi swordmasters
An example of a Jedi swordmaster was Mace Windu, considered as such because of his mastery of Vaapad, which he created. [1]

Cin Drallig, Sora Bulq and Grand Master Yoda were also considered swordmasters. All three of them had mastered every known form of lightsaber combat and Sora was known for helping Mace Windu develop his Vaapad fighting style. Also, all three became lightsaber instructors to many younglings. Yoda was considered one of the greatest swordmasters of his time, rivaled only by Mace Windu, Count Dooku and Darth Sidious.

 

[gourimoko]

I've read all of that? It's highly assumptive to state he was the best lightsaber user alive.

No, it's really not.

Jedi swordmasters
An example of a Jedi swordmaster was Mace Windu, considered as such because of his mastery of Vaapad, which he created. [1]

Cin Drallig, Sora Bulq and Grand Master Yoda were also considered swordmasters. All three of them had mastered every known form of lightsaber combat and Sora was known for helping Mace Windu develop his Vaapad fighting style. Also, all three became lightsaber instructors to many younglings. Yoda was considered one of the greatest swordmasters of his time, rivaled only by Mace Windu, Count Dooku and Darth Sidious.

I'm not sure how it's assumptive at all considering the context of the commentary about Windu as well as the presentation of Windu in the films.

Moreover, if we just look at who battles who and what those outcomes are: Windu defeats Palpatine who drew to a stalemate with Yoda, as did Dooku.

By even mentioning Cin Drallig and Sora Bulq it seems you're not really considering who these people are? Drallig was an old man when Windu was Master of the Jedi; and Bulq is a subordinate to Windu during the Battle of Geonosis; with no content that I know of suggesting he is Windu's equal with the lightsaber.

I'm not sure how this supports your argument unless you're suggesting one of these guys (lets leave Yoda and Anakin aside for a moment) was a better swordsman than Windu? And to that I would ask, with what evidence have you come to this conclusion?

 

[Lyst]

No, it's really not.



I'm not sure how it's assumptive at all considering the context of the commentary, the presentation of Windu. Windu defeats Palpatine who drew to a stalemate with Yoda, as did Dooku.

By even mentioning Cin Drallig and Sora Bulq it seems you're not really considering who these people are? Drallig was an old man when Windu was Master of the Jedi; and Bulq is a subordinate to Windu during the Battle of Geonosis; with no content that I know of suggesting he is Windu's equal with the lightsaber.

Please somewhere show me where it's states, Cannon.. Hell even non-cannon EU that Mace Windu was the best lightsaber user.

If you cannot provide valid proof you are making assumptions.

Assumptions are made by drawing conclusions by things such as him defeating Palptatine. Which is a conditional occurrence.
Definition of assumption. "1. a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof."

Or you could call it an opinion. But nowhere in the SW universe does it state that.

 

[Jack Brickman]

You know it's bad when I open a topic and it's too nerdy even for me.

 

[gourimoko]

Please somewhere show me where it's states, Cannon.. Hell even non-cannon EU that Mace Windu was the best lightsaber user.

If you cannot provide valid proof you are making assumptions.

Lyst, seems like.. you're not really wanting to have a rational conversation here? I'm not sure how everything I've said up to this point is somehow not "valid?" You've asked me for evidence, and I've provided such.

I don't think there has to be an explicit expositional statement to surmise the hierarchy of users, even though there is such a statement that puts Windu as "one the best." If you think there has to be a more explicit statement than that made, otherwise invalid assumptions are being drawn, well, I really don't think that makes much rational sense.

Assumptions are made by drawing conclusions by things such as him defeating Palptatine. Which is a conditional occurrence.

It's the only occurrence we have of this happening. Where is your evidence that Palpatine is a better swordsman than Windu that would outweigh this canonical event?

Definition of assumption. "1. a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof."

Right, which means your usage of the term is in error.

Or you could call it an opinion.

Or a rational conclusion...

But nowhere in the SW universe does it state that.

According to your ad hoc threshold of validity. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated, particularly when talking about movies..

I would simply ask you to present a better swordsman than Windu who is not named Yoda or Anakin?

 

[BMAN]

What have I done?!

 

[Lyst]

Lyst, seems like.. you're not really wanting to have a rational conversation here? I'm not sure how everything I've said up to this point is somehow not valid? I don't think there has to be an explicit expositional statement to surmise the hierarchy of users. If you think there has to be, otherwise invalid assumptions are made, well, I really don't think that makes much sense.



It's the only occurrence we have of this happening.



Right, which means your usage of the term is in error.



Or a rational conclusion...



According to your threshold of validity. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated, particularly when talking about movies..

LOLOL. Nothing needs to be explicitly stated.

A "rational conclusion" is not FACT. Like you stated and are now trying to defend.

Sorry I've seen you make blanket statements in here before like you are some all-seeing SW Prophet, when there is no validity in them.

Also, I'm eagerly waiting for this quote from Obi Wan telling Anakin that Windu was the best in AOTC.

 

[gourimoko]

It's a nice

LOLOL. Nothing needs to be explicitly stated.

A "rational conclusion" is not FACT. Like you stated and are now trying to defend.

Why are you so angry?

No, a rational conclusion is not a fact. But it's also not based on baseless assumptions. I'm trying to engage you in a rational conversation to which you want me to make the case for Windu; up to this point, I have. I've asked you now 3 times to present a counter-argument, and up to this point you haven't. Given the information that we have, I think that pretty much makes my point, does it not?

Sorry I've seen you make blanket statements in here before like you are some all-seeing SW Prophet, when there is no validity in them.

Where is all of this coming from? I've never claimed to be an SW prophet... But why are you so mad?

Also, I'm eagerly waiting for this quote from Obi Wan telling Anakin that Windu was the best in AOTC.

Are you really not going to answer any of my questions?

 

[gourimoko]

What have I done?!

Yea, I'm not sure.... I'm not sure why anyone would get so heated over something so trivial?

 

[Lyst]

You are allowed to say Mace Windu is "possibly" the best or "arguably" the best-- that is all.

I see you as someone who will never admit they are wrong, or even somewhat wrong- which is what annoys me.