Star Wars Force Awakens viewing thread (spoilers)

[gourimoko]

Well, Deadpool wasn't Marvel, so it doesn't really belong in this conversation.

Indeed...

They are certainly cookie cutter money grabs. Why would we expect them to be different?

I mean.. all of them though? I dunno.. I don't miss the Ang Lee Hulk, but at the same time, I do miss some originality... The comic books, particularly the best series these characters have run weren't cookie cutter formulaic storylines.. The films however, most have been just that.

Marvel found a formula that works and has been pumping out solid films ever since.

Yep... at a certain point, I guess I just found it all very exhausting.

Regardless, I think their quality has remained pretty high. The worst Marvel films are still decent, and the best are quite good.

I can't disagree with you in a general sense here... I just feel many of these movies are really just the same film done in repetition...

I can't really think of any of their movies that outright sucked. Avengers 2 was kind of bleh, and the third Iron Man is probably the worst of their films, but other than that I guess Thor isn't some peoples' cup of tea, although I enjoyed both of those films even if they weren't amazing.

The ones you named, particularly Iron Man, were pretty bad IMHO.

They're doing a hell of a lot better than DC at maintaining quality, at any rate.

Agreed, particularly if we start the clock at the point when Marvel got their shit together then certainly.. But if we include the Dark Knight Trilogy then it's a bit closer..

Also, I actually really liked Man of Steel (I know, most didn't) and thought BvS was better than the movies you listed in your last paragraph (yep, I know most disagree).

Suicide Squad was hot garbage though; but that much was apparent from the start I think.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Indeed...

I mean.. all of them though? I dunno.. I don't miss the Ang Lee Hulk, but at the same time, I do miss some originality... The comic books, particularly the best series these characters have run weren't cookie cutter formulaic storylines.. The films however, most have been just that.

Yep... at a certain point, I guess I just found it all very exhausting.

I can't disagree with you in a general sense here... I just feel many of these movies are really just the same film done in repetition...

The ones you named, particularly Iron Man, were pretty bad IMHO.

Agreed, particularly if we start the clock at the point when Marvel got their shit together then certainly.. But if we include the Dark Knight Trilogy then it's a bit closer..

Also, I actually really liked Man of Steel (I know, most didn't) and thought BvS was better than the movies you listed in your last paragraph (yep, I know most disagree).

Suicide Squad was hot garbage though; but that much was apparent from the start I think.

I enjoyed Man of Steel for what it was. I thought it was an enjoyable action/invasion movie but kind of a shitty Superman movie. It just felt way too dark and gritty for the character. Superman should have demanded more of a Marvel treatment, but instead it seemed like it was trying insanely hard to be The Dark Knight, which just isn't the right tone for Superman. I mean, Superman's Earth dad telling him he should have let a bus full of kids die to preserve his identity? The fuck is that?

I disagree about BvS, though. I thought it had a couple of awesome scenes (Batman fighting Superman, and the scene where Batman demolishes all of those goons holding Kent's mom), but was largely just a clusterfuck of ideas all thrown together without much consideration for whether or not they fit. They just tried to toss too many ideas and characters into one film instead of taking their time like Marvel has done, likely in a desperate attempt to catch up to Marvel.

I just think the idea of catching up to Marvel is stupid. There is room for both DC and Marvel films, and no one is going to give a shit if DC is behind if they make good films. Instead, they seem to be intent on rushing things and making movies featuring characters that haven't even been introduced where those characters have been operating for seemingly years. You can pull that off for a character like Batman, where everyone knows who he is, but Suicide Squad? That's the type of film you make after half a dozen hero films where you've established a bunch of bad guys, not the type you make before you've introduced literally any of the bad guys in the Squad.

I don't really disagree about the Marvel films being formulaic and largely similar, but I've also generally found them to be a lot of fun, outside of a couple of duds. They've certainly seemed to hit on more films than they've missed, at any rate. I agree that more creativity would be welcome, but at the same time I can see why they oversee things the way that they do given the general quality they've been able to maintain.

 

[Adam]

One things for sure. Inthe post infinity wars marvel arc they need to be willing to mix it up a bit. I get why building towards that event requires a certain level of discipline.

 

[KI4MVP]

It's funny.. I saw TFA twice in theaters, and twice at home... I kept hoping it would get better with each viewing and it only got progressively worse.

So the complete opposite of how Dark Knight Rises worked for me

 

[Chris]

So the complete opposite of how Dark Knight Rises worked for me

I waited like a year or two after it came out and finally watched it. Everyone had me thinking it'd suck. Enjoyed it.

 

[col63onel]

Talking about comic books in a Star Wars thread?

Nerds.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

I waited like a year or two after it came out and finally watched it. Everyone had me thinking it'd suck. Enjoyed it.

Still don't understand the hate for that movie.

It suffered from its prequel containing what was arguably the best acting performance ever.

 

[gourimoko]

Still don't understand the hate for that movie.

It suffered from its prequel containing what was arguably the best acting performance ever.

It was overly long, and tended to lose the viewer in a great deal of unnecessary exposition and plot points that were really aside the main story. It was too much going on with too little tie-in. The entire Robin plot line was literally useless to the story; and I was excited about it, but, it was poorly executed. The ending was fucking terrible, btw..

I say this as a huge Christopher Nolan fan; I think he's one of the best directors of our time. But TDKR was kind of a let down.. Even with that said, you're right in that it's being judged alongside The Dark Knight, which is literally one of the best movies ever.

 

[Chris]

Glad I'm not alone on TDK.

Think I saw it like five times in the theater (to be fair, it was me tagging along with friends who hadnt seen it yet) and I'm not a comic book or Batman guy at all.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Still don't understand the hate for that movie.

It suffered from its prequel containing what was arguably the best acting performance ever.

I think it suffered from being absolutely riddled with plot holes, but without Ledger's performance to make up for them like in TDK (which, to be fair, had less plot holes than Rises).

And, as gouri said, the ending was awful. I also wasn't a fan of how they tried to shoehorn the entire "broken bat" storyline into one film. It just doesn't work, and it was absolutely ridiculous how that guy just punched Bruce and healed his broken back.

I didn't like Bane just ending up being a fucking lackey either. In the comics, he's one of Batman's most formidable foes because he's damn near as smart as Bruce Wayne but even stronger. In Rises, he just ended up being a strong man for someone else, which was weak.

 

[gourimoko]

I think it suffered from being absolutely riddled with plot holes, but without Ledger's performance to make up for them like in TDK (which, to be fair, had less plot holes than Rises).

And, as gouri said, the ending was awful. I also wasn't a fan of how they tried to shoehorn the entire "broken bat" storyline into one film. It just doesn't work, and it was absolutely ridiculous how that guy just punched Bruce and healed his broken back.

I didn't like Bane just ending up being a fucking lackey either. In the comics, he's one of Batman's most formidable foes because he's damn near as smart as Bruce Wayne but even stronger. In Rises, he just ended up being a strong man for someone else, which was weak.

Agreed.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Agreed.

I have hopes that one day we'll get a proper Bane adaptation in a Batman film. Rises was a lot better than the previous one (damning with faint praise, I know), but it still wasn't good.

 

[MD13]

It's funny.. I saw TFA twice in theaters, and twice at home... I kept hoping it would get better with each viewing and it only got progressively worse.

It's been a while since I've watched the original trilogy, but did all of those movies have the original tone of "friends saving the world and cracking jokes the whole way through?" I know that's why everyone loved Han, but it seems like the movies as a whole were more serious. What really stuck to me about the new films is the amount of (forced) slapstick humor by just about every character.

Really looking forward to Rogue One since it seems the tone is more in line with the older ones.

 

[gourimoko]

It's been a while since I've watched the original trilogy, but did all of those movies have the original tone of "friends saving the world and cracking jokes the whole way through?"

Not at all...

In A New Hope; the film was very much in line with fantasy stories of the time, having a slower pace, introducing characters cautiously and deliberately. The first act has comic relief, but is anything but comedic. It ends with the death of Luke's aunt and uncle and the visual image of their burning remains...

The second act has more comedy brought on by the character development of Leia and Han as well as the interaction between the three characters; it's the most light-hearted portion of the film, but again, ends with the death of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Third act was completely serious. Han seemingly turning his back on the rebellion; Obi-Wan being lost; Luke losing hope of training as a Jedi; and the Death Star about to destroy the rebel base.

...

Empire Strikes Back was by far the darkest of the 3 films, and, there's no real point in discussing it as a kind of comedy.

...

Return of the Jedi was the lightest of the original trilogy, but also the most commercial. Even then, the A-story was entirely serious, from literally the top to the bottom from Act 1 to 3. The B-story contained all of the comic relief, compartmentalizing this into almost two separate films occurring simultaneously.

...

TFA was nothing like these movies in tone; instead being a much more light-hearted redux of ANH. TFA was almost aware of it's own lack of seriousness, and it was evident in the character performances. Had it been any more lighthearted I'd have thought it a parody of Spaceballs.

I know that's why everyone loved Han, but it seems like the movies as a whole were more serious.

They were.. it was a combination of both, and was more skillfully done; even by Lucas in ANH and ROTJ.

What really stuck to me about the new films is the amount of (forced) slapstick humor by just about every character.

Agreed, you almost expected them to turn to the camera and wink, or start laughing and breaking character.

Really looking forward to Rogue One since it seems the tone is more in line with the older ones.

From my understanding the tone is similar to Empire; but, I kind of doubt it.. We'll see..

 

[MD13]

Not at all...

In A New Hope; the film was very much in line with fantasy stories of the time, having a slower pace, introducing characters cautiously and deliberately. The first act has comic relief, but is anything but comedic. It ends with the death of Luke's aunt and uncle and the visual image of their burning remains...

The second act has more comedy brought on by the character development of Leia and Han as well as the interaction between the three characters; it's the most light-hearted portion of the film, but again, ends with the death of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Third act was completely serious. Han seemingly turning his back on the rebellion; Obi-Wan being lost; Luke losing hope of training as a Jedi; and the Death Star about to destroy the rebel base.

...

Empire Strikes Back was by far the darkest of the 3 films, and, there's no real point in discussing it as a kind of comedy.

...

Return of the Jedi was the lightest of the original trilogy, but also the most commercial. Even then, the A-story was entirely serious, from literally the top to the bottom from Act 1 to 3. The B-story contained all of the comic relief, compartmentalizing this into almost two separate films occurring simultaneously.

...

TFA was nothing like these movies in tone; instead being a much more light-hearted redux of ANH. TFA was almost aware of it's own lack of seriousness, and it was evident in the character performances. Had it been any more lighthearted I'd have thought it a parody of Spaceballs.



They were.. it was a combination of both, and was more skillfully done; even by Lucas in ANH and ROTJ.



Agreed, you almost expected them to turn to the camera and wink, or start laughing and breaking character.



From my understanding the tone is similar to Empire; but, I kind of doubt it.. We'll see..

Yeah, it was just so off-putting. Every action scene had Finn tripping over himself or some gag with a close call, followed by some campy one liner. I dunno, my friends loved it but it wasn't my cup of tea at all.