The Chubb-Hub Yardage Delivery Service

[mds]

Are you talking linemen or skill position players?

What I've seen is some players go through high school, maybe even college, and they are the star. It's better for their coaches to use them as a decoy instead of developing blocking skills. That's what happened with a friend who received a full scholarship to a D1 program. They thought he could become a multi-purpose full back instead of a big tailback... the blocking skills were just too underdeveloped.

For interior offensive lineman, the basic skills may not be as developed because college programs didn't put the player in a three point stance. Plenty of linemen in college are on an island on the outside as their best pass blocker at left tackle, but in the pros they are going to move inside. Aside from the shift in responsibility, defensive linemen are just bigger, stronger and more powerful in the NFL.

It's an open secret that college programs haven't been producing polished offensive lineman for about a decade. It's more common to have an athlete like Brian O'Neill of the Vikings who was drafted on the potential to develop, not what he already can do.

Sorry, I meant specifically for an RB like Chubb. Great stuff though, love learning from you guys...I'm a bit more of a hoops guy.

 

[AZ_]

I’ve seen more than a few people off this board talking about keeping Gregg Williams.

Lol, c’mon folks.

Guy has one win after two years of absolutely ridiculous run defense, formations and decision making that has disappeared into the abyss.

 

[The Voice]

Are you talking linemen or skill position players?

What I've seen is some players go through high school, maybe even college, and they are the star. It's better for their coaches to use them as a decoy instead of developing blocking skills. That's what happened with a friend who received a full scholarship to a D1 program. They thought he could become a multi-purpose full back instead of a big tailback... the blocking skills were just too underdeveloped.

For interior offensive lineman, the basic skills may not be as developed because college programs didn't put the player in a three point stance. Plenty of linemen in college are on an island on the outside as their best pass blocker at left tackle, but in the pros they are going to move inside. Aside from the shift in responsibility, defensive linemen are just bigger, stronger and more powerful in the NFL.

It's an open secret that college programs haven't been producing polished offensive lineman for about a decade. It's more common to have an athlete like Brian O'Neill of the Vikings who was drafted on the potential to develop, not what he already can do.

I raise you Wisconsin. It’s a factory of offensive lineman.

 

[The Voice]

Lately we have not been using Ward on the best WR, but on the 2nd best and then we double the best. It for sure worked in Atlanta.

But I get your point, Ward is being placed on an island allowing Randall to provide over the top deep coverage help to the other corner which keeps changing because of injuries. Wards skills are huge in defending the pass, also Myles putting pressure on the QB constantly helps allot too, lol.

I think that’s because of the size of the previous opponents top 2 receivers. Julio would have been a tougher matchup for Ward.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I raise you Wisconsin. It’s a factory of offensive lineman.

We agree, along with the guy who used to be at Notre Dame who moved up to the Bears Harry Heistand, the Washington assistant coach Scott Huff, and back when Jeff Tedford coached Cal. But then I'd raise you pretty much every other program.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Don't be fooled by the "we got rid of the historically inept coach" bump.

Gregggg is still very much awful.

There is a difference between being a coordinator, and being a HC. There is also a difference between being a coordinator when you have decent personnel, and when you don't.

I really don't understand people who are convinced, already, that keeping either Williams or Kitchen is the wrong move, regardless of how well they coach from here on out.

Kitchen is 43 -- 10 years as a position coach before becoming a coordinator. Bruce Arians got his first NFL job in 1989, and didn't become an offensive coordinator with the Browns until more than a decade later, at 47 years old. And plenty of successful head coaches failed in their first stint.

It would be way premature to say we should keep either of them. It's equally premature to say we shouldn't.

 

[The Voice]

I would say I’d we hypothetically did hire Arians (not saying I know one way or the other or even if I want them to), I’d say there’s a good shot Kitchens stays with the team.

 

[CBBI]

It would be way premature to say we should keep either of them. It's equally premature to say we shouldn't.

I won't really speak too much about Kitchens because he's still a virtual unknown. He's coordinated two games and the Browns have averaged right at 400 yards a game. He could be the next big thing in offensive play calling for all we know.

What I do know is that Greggggg is a terrible defensive coordinator *and* a terrible head coach because he's proven to be poor at both roles throughout his career. The fact that he's been better than the worst coach in NFL history over a tiny two game sample size is not an indication whatsoever that he himself is actually good.

I do think there's a much better chance that Kitchens sticks over Greggggg though.

The odds seem incredibly unlikely that an incoming head coach would retain Greggggg as DC after he's already coached these guys for half a season. That would be a recipe for disaster, especially if the Browns struggle under the new guy after closing strong this year under Greggggg.

Kitchens could MAYBE stick around if the Browns hire a guy with a defensive background (Jim Schwartz, Todd Wash, George Edwards) a special teams background (John Harbaugh, Dave Taub) or something without much of a scheme background (Dan Campbell).

If they hire an offensive minded coach, my guess is that he'd want to bring in all of his own people.

 

[macbdog]

I’ve seen more than a few people off this board talking about keeping Gregg Williams.

Lol, c’mon folks.

Guy has one win after two years of absolutely ridiculous run defense, formations and decision making that has disappeared into the abyss.

This is a really wierd backhanded endorsement of Gregg Williams.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

What I do know is that Greggggg is a terrible defensive coordinator *and* a terrible head coach because he's proven to be poor at both roles throughout his career. The fact that he's been better than the worst coach in NFL history over a tiny two game sample size is not an indication whatsoever that he himself is actually good.

I don't agree Williams has been a "terrible" defensive coordinator throughout his career.

As for being a head coach....Williams had one two-year stint in 2001-2003, when he was 43-45 years old. He has had 15 years of coaching under various guys in the interim. It is entirely possible he has grown/matured/learned a lot about being a head coach since then.

Despite that possibility, I would never have taken a chance on hiring him off the street on the off chance he may have improved as a head coach. At the same time, if he demonstrates during these 8 games that he has developed to the point where he is coaching well as an HC, and the players are responding positively to him, he should be at least considered.

There is no such thing as a "sure thing" coaching hire. Any other coach we'd hire would be either a retread or a first-time NFL head coach. No matter how highly touted they'd be, there's no guarantee they wouldn't fail. So if you have a guy who is currently doing a good job in the actual position, you should think carefully before kicking him to the curb.

 

[MGMT]

Glad we are on topic here.


Says the guy bitching about Brees not having an MVP in Baker’s thread.

 

[AZ_]

Had to look up Brees’ 2011 to see why he didn’t win MVP.

A-Rod that season was actually better. What an unreal era of QBs.

 

[buzzdog]

There is a difference between being a coordinator, and being a HC. There is also a difference between being a coordinator when you have decent personnel, and when you don't.

I really don't understand people who are convinced, already, that keeping either Williams or Kitchen is the wrong move, regardless of how well they coach from here on out.

Kitchen is 43 -- 10 years as a position coach before becoming a coordinator. Bruce Arians got his first NFL job in 1989, and didn't become an offensive coordinator with the Browns until more than a decade later, at 47 years old. And plenty of successful head coaches failed in their first stint.

It would be way premature to say we should keep either of them. It's equally premature to say we shouldn't.

Exactly.

 

[buzzdog]

What I do know is that Greggggg is a terrible defensive coordinator *and* a terrible head coach because he's proven to be poor at both roles throughout his career.

He's a terrible defensive coordinator who also happens to wear Super Bowl ring that he won with his horrible schemes.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

He's a terrible defensive coordinator who also happens to wear Super Bowl ring that he won with his horrible schemes.

From like 10 years ago.

The NFL has changed. Triple G has not.

Almost certainly we can do better than him.