The Jarvis Landry Thread: Bless 'Em

[Soda]

I guess you were pissed we didn't sign/extent Josh Gordon to a huge contract....

Big. X. High efficiency.

 

[CBBI]

I guess you were pissed we didn't sign/extent Josh Gordon to a huge contract....

Picking one of the most extreme outlier examples you can find to support your side of the argument. Sweet!

We should only draft QBs in the 6th round because Tom Brady went in the 6th round too, right?

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Glad you think I'm trolling after 10 years. I think it's pathetic that you can't look at the article I posted. Or that you looked at it and still don't see it.

I can see it just fine. Just because I disagree with Jake doesnt mean I have read his stuff.

You are the one directly attacking people *saying we are rooting against the Browns, ect* for bringing up simple stats.

If you choose not to believe me? Great, have at it. Just stop with the other "group think" crap.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Picking one of the most extreme outlier examples you can find to support your side of the argument. Sweet!

We should only draft QBs in the 6th round because Tom Brady went in the 6th round too, right?

Okay...I suppose you also think we should trade the farm for Antonio Brown too because of his production, and screw the intangibles.

Eh, forget it. If you think leadership and intangibles don't matter in football, it's not really worth arguing.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

I guess you were pissed we didn't sign/extent Josh Gordon to a huge contract....

What in the world has Josh done in the last 5 years that makes you believe that someone who favors production would want Josh Gordon? Honestly?

JFC

 

[Soda]

I can see it just fine. Just because I disagree with Jake doesnt mean I have read his stuff.

You are the one directly attacking people *saying we are rooting against the Browns, ect* for bringing up simple stats.

If you choose not to believe me? Great, have at it. Just stop with the other "group think" crap.

It's a shared opinion between like 5 of you that you all keep patting each other on the back about. That's my opinion of what's happening.

Aren't you essentially tamping enthusiasm for a Browns player?

I'd prefer you ignore me if you don't think I can write a post that you can take-in.

 

[CBBI]

Okay...I suppose you also think we should trade the farm for Antonio Brown too because of his production, and screw the intangibles.

Eh, forget it. If you think leadership and intangibles don't matter in football, it's not really worth arguing.

Yes. They 100% should.

If the Browns could realistically acquire Antonio Brown in a trade (they can't for a variety of reasons), it would be completely and utterly foolish not to.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Okay...I suppose you also think we should trade the farm for Antonio Brown too because of his production, and screw the intangibles.

Eh, forget it. If you think leadership and intangibles don't matter in football, it's not really worth arguing.

If you think Leadership and Intangibles are all that matter, its not worth arguing. You'll end up with a team of Tim Tebow's and Courtney Brown's.

 

[Jordan]

I agree that he wasn't good enough this past season. Part of that was the attention he was receiving, part of that was learning a new offense, part of it was adjusting to new personnel, and the last part of it was him not performing up to his standards.

His target to catch percentage this season was 54.4%. That's not acceptable. He'd be the first to tell you that. There are many factors that go into that stat, and we know it. His previous 4 seasons, this career number was 70.6%. Significantly better.

That said, I also think he brings a lot of positives to the table, even in a down year. @Soda mentions the attitude, the leadership, the willingness to set an example by doing the small things--blocking, toughness, defending his quarterback. He brings credibility to this team.

Despite being inefficient this season, he still led us in catches and yards. It wasn't a great year for him by any means, but he still was on the Pro Bowl map based on how the league thinks of him.

He had 81 catches. 976 yards receiving. 60 yards rushing. 1036 yards from scrimmage. 5 total touchdowns, not including his passing TD.

He's still a guy capable of making plays.

After a year to adjust to this team, I think he'll be moving back toward his career mark with target conversion. A little less volume, a little more efficiency.

Next year, I see him as a guy capable of getting us 80 catches, 1100 yards, and 5-6 TD's on less volume while doing all the little things. To me, that's a very solid #2 receiver.

He's certainly not the garbage player many would choose to have you believe.

Right - and I acknowledged all the positives you mentioned. I said “I am glad he is on the team” and I truly mean that. He’s a great leadership guy and seemingly transformed that receiving room.

He also absolutely was placed into the wrong role this year. My hope is Callaway or Perriman become the true X receiver next year and we keep Higgins as the Y. That will let Jarvis play most snaps in the slot, and he excels in that role, which will mean a better season. A big reason his numbers were bad is he played a ton of snaps as an X receiver - this would be similar to playing Chubb as a Tight End, he can do it but is way out of position. Jarvis is a slot guy and the Hue/Haley braintrust tried moving him away from it.

All I’m saying is that his efficiency numbers were incredibly average this season. I’m happy that he is in the Pro Bowl. I really like him as a leader and he is seemingly a good person too.

 

[dark2332]

So:

1) We love our coach now. Freddie is the man. No more Hue to hate.
2) We love our quarterback now. Baker is the man. No more QB drama to discuss.
3) We love our coach's staff now. Freddie is the man and everyone wants to coach with him.

Damn, things are just so good; we have to find someone to hate on....

Apparently that man is now our Pro Bowl receiver, Jarvis Landry. Sure, fine, he's making about $4 million/year too much. He signed here after we went 0-16.

If it were me, I'd have picked Jamie Collins to hate on.

 

[CBBI]

If you think leadership and intangibles don't matter in football, it's not really worth arguing.

I'm not suggesting they don't matter at all. I simply don't think they matter nearly as much at certain positions compared to others and I will always side with production over intangibles.

 

[Soda]

I'm not suggesting they don't matter at all. I simply don't think they matter nearly as much at certain positions compared to others and I will always side with production over intangibles.

I agree with this, but feel like intangibles absolutely get lost in the shuffle. I think a resident expert here overlooked those traits in Baker. In large though, I think it matters much more at QB than other positions. There still are position rooms where leadership is useful, but when it comes to banding everyone together as a team, that's a QB's job and, infrequently, a LB.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

It's a shared opinion between like 5 of you that you all keep patting each other on the back about. That's my opinion of what's happening.

Aren't you essentially tamping enthusiasm for a Browns player?

I'd prefer you ignore me if you don't think I can write a post that you can take-in.

Maybe 5 of us on the message board, but there are several who believe, and have said as much, that Landry has always been severely over rated.

I'm not rooting against him to be good. But realistically, a 26 year old slow WR is not suddenly going to become a great player. And we are overpaying him. Hes the Tristan Thomas of the Browns. He has a role at a reduced price but is maybe worth half of what he is making.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

What in the world has Josh done in the last 5 years that makes you believe that someone who favors production would want Josh Gordon? Honestly?

JFC

This season, he was 13th in the AFC in yards/game, and had more yards/reception than any of the top 30 receivers (by total yards) in the AFC. 18 yards/catch. Based purely on his production rather than his intangibles, he should be in high demand.

The larger point, though, is that intangibles and production are linked. Corey Coleman had talent, but his intangibles sucked. He didn't put in the work, so he never had the production.

If you believe that leadership/positive veteran presence is irrelevant, then fine. But if you don't, they you at least have to consider what Landry may have contributed in terms of intangibles/leadership to other receivers, which in turn affected their production. There were all sorts of nuggets dropped during/before the season how part of Landry's job was to teach the other WR's how to be professionals.

We outside the team can't know the details of that, but if the coaches saw fit to emphasize that...presumably, they know more about it than do we fans.

 

[Soda]

Maybe 5 of us on the message board, but there are several who believe, and have said as much, that Landry has always been severely over rated.

I'm not rooting against him to be good. But realistically, a 26 year old slow WR is not suddenly going to become a great player. And we are overpaying him. Hes the Tristan Thomas of the Browns. He has a role at a reduced price but is maybe worth half of what he is making.

In both the case of TT and JL, you have people closer to the situation than us or you 5 that say each does invaluable things for the team/locker-room that makes them worth it. People are adamant against trading TT because of those things.

Also, why do you or I care about Jarvis's production to pay at this stage of the team's growth? It's not like we have to reign in, as fans, our salary cap makeup. This isn't the Chiefs having to sacrifice players to stay under the cap. They needed a service (a total package ala Landry), he was inexpensive to acquire and the team paid him money they had and thought he was worth at the time (at this time). Moreover, he's provided a lot of what they likely envisioned he'd provide. It feels like nitpicking.

Also, as an aside, you have Baron Davis as your avatar. Not exactly the poster-boy for equitable pay. Not an insult, just funny and ironic and I just noticed.