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The unofficial Obamacare thread...

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This is hilarious. The health insurance industry has been rolling in dough since Obamacare was passed, and now cutting out government subsidies to them is considered fucking people over.

rates for the lower tier plans will go up because of this, so yes. The subsidies were paid for by surcharges on the top tier plans, right? The net result for insurance companies was supposed neutral.
 
This is hilarious. The health insurance industry has been rolling in dough since Obamacare was passed, and now cutting out government subsidies to them is considered fucking people over.

Until insurance companies are forced to adhere to better regulations, they will continue to roll in dough and dick people over.
 
This is hilarious. The health insurance industry has been rolling in dough since Obamacare was passed, and now cutting out government subsidies to them is considered fucking people over.

No, intentionally jeopardizing Obama care to tank it because Republican's can't get the support is actually fucking over people. it has nothing to do with the subsidies. Republican's cannot replace it, so if they let it destroy itself by cutting off its oxygen, then there will be no choice but to replace. And in the mean time? That fucks people over.
 
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Good job. They can't pass a bill so they'll just fuck people over instead.

That, my friends, is leadership.

That's exactly what it is. Exact same thing he's rightly doing with the illegal DACA program. That's what you get when the prior President engaged in regulatory end-runs around Congress because it wouldn't pass laws he wanted it to pass. That's not the way our government is supposed to function under the Constitution. If Congress and the President don't agree on legislation, it is supposed to die, no matter how great the President believes it to be, or how badly he wants it. The President's powers don't magically expand just because he can't get what he wants. As a result, the bureaucratic band-aids Obama slapped on these problems because he couldn't get the legislation he wanted are getting stricken down.

I'd point out that this eventuality was pointing out at the time on both DACA and the ACA by a whole lot of people when Obama did it in the first place.

In this particular situation, a district court determined that those payments were illegal because there was no Congressional authorization for them. The geniuses that crafted that bill forget to address that. Darn. Maybe Democrats shouldn't have rammed through a 2300+ page bill back in 2010 without giving their own members time to read it, because someone might have figured this out. But, because some Democrats in the House were balking at the bill, constituent feedback was generally negative, and leadership was afraid some of that very tenuous support would flip, they rammed through that bill the second it was drafted and they had the votes. Unknown flaws and all.

The President shouldn't continue indefinitely payments that his Justice Department -- backed by a court -- are telling him are illegal. So, we're in a situation where ObamaCare is going to crash and burn because of design flaws if a bill isn't passed authorizing not only those subsidies, but also additional funds to try to stop the current death spiral. But Democrats don't have the votes to do that, nor Hillary to sign it even if they did.

So what we've really got going on is a game of chicken. Obamacare is failing because it has structural flaws. We need to either pass a new law keeping it intact by funneling more money to it, or pass a law moving in a different direction. As of right now, Democrats can't pass their version, and the GOP can't pass theirs. Why it should be the GOP giving in to the Democrats on this?

So, if Congress can't pass a bill right now, maybe a couple of recalcitrant GOP Senators will see things differently when a true collapse of the exchanges becomes a much more realistic prospect.
 
I like how conservatives that don't want to screw their constituents by removing a popular law that helps people are recalcitrant. Hurting sick people is the only way the GOP has suggested for reducing costs
 
I like how conservatives that don't want to screw their constituents by removing a popular law that helps people are recalcitrant. Hurting sick people is the only way the GOP has suggested for reducing costs

Allowing low wage employees who don't work for large companies to buy as a group and use that leverage to get a better rate doesn't hurt sick people.

Allowing customers to buy insurance across state lines to promote competitive rates doesn't hurt sick people.
 
Allowing low wage employees who don't work for large companies to buy as a group and use that leverage to get a better rate doesn't hurt sick people.

Allowing customers to buy insurance across state lines to promote competitive rates doesn't hurt sick people.

So what your saying, is even though they are admitting that this is going to screw the system up, they are doing it to help people with healthcare? Cool.

Y'know, from a very practical point of view, this is like changing the rules before tip off. Open enrollment is here and insurance companies need to know what is up before the game starts. Republicans have destabilized the markets simply with all the threats and going back to this well repeatedly. That isn't savvy, and it doesn't help anyone with anything.
 
That's exactly what it is. Exact same thing he's rightly doing with the illegal DACA program. That's what you get when the prior President engaged in regulatory end-runs around Congress because it wouldn't pass laws he wanted it to pass. That's not the way our government is supposed to function under the Constitution. If Congress and the President don't agree on legislation, it is supposed to die, no matter how great the President believes it to be, or how badly he wants it. The President's powers don't magically expand just because he can't get what he wants. As a result, the bureaucratic band-aids Obama slapped on these problems because he couldn't get the legislation he wanted are getting stricken down.

I'd point out that this eventuality was pointing out at the time on both DACA and the ACA by a whole lot of people when Obama did it in the first place.

In this particular situation, a district court determined that those payments were illegal because there was no Congressional authorization for them. The geniuses that crafted that bill forget to address that. Darn. Maybe Democrats shouldn't have rammed through a 2300+ page bill back in 2010 without giving their own members time to read it, because someone might have figured this out. But, because some Democrats in the House were balking at the bill, constituent feedback was generally negative, and leadership was afraid some of that very tenuous support would flip, they rammed through that bill the second it was drafted and they had the votes. Unknown flaws and all.

The President shouldn't continue indefinitely payments that his Justice Department -- backed by a court -- are telling him are illegal. So, we're in a situation where ObamaCare is going to crash and burn because of design flaws if a bill isn't passed authorizing not only those subsidies, but also additional funds to try to stop the current death spiral. But Democrats don't have the votes to do that, nor Hillary to sign it even if they did.

So what we've really got going on is a game of chicken. Obamacare is failing because it has structural flaws. We need to either pass a new law keeping it intact by funneling more money to it, or pass a law moving in a different direction. As of right now, Democrats can't pass their version, and the GOP can't pass theirs. Why it should be the GOP giving in to the Democrats on this?

So, if Congress can't pass a bill right now, maybe a couple of recalcitrant GOP Senators will see things differently when a true collapse of the exchanges becomes a much more realistic prospect.
Rather than the Republican-wrought catastrophe you predict, it is also possible that the bi-partisan Senate based effort applying fixes to the ACA market place might be the path chosen by wise leaders in both parties.

If a bill reaches Trump's desk through this process, he just might surprise you and sign it. We all know the key to that is to simply call it 'trump-care' instead of 'obamacare'.
 
Rather than the Republican-wrought catastrophe you predict, it is also possible that the bi-partisan Senate based effort applying fixes to the ACA market place might be the path chosen by wise leaders in both parties.

If a bill reaches Trump's desk through this process, he just might surprise you and sign it. We all know the key to that is to simply call it 'trump-care' instead of 'obamacare'.

Not so sure they can do that through reconciliation, and getting 12 GOP Senators to vote to save Obamacare may be tough. Certainly, GOP House members worried about being abandoned by conservative voters if they vote to save Obamacare may not survive either.

I hope Trump will be sufficiently petulant that he won't want to reward "moderate" GOP members for not supporting any of the other bills. It may happen, though.

I just hope it doesn't because I think it is a bad law that will only get worse over time.
 
Playing politics with peoples' lives. Real cool.
 
Republicans have destabilized the markets simply with all the threats and going back to this well repeatedly. That isn't savvy, and it doesn't help anyone with anything.

It helps put pressure on moderate Republicans. Vote for a reform that loosens some of Obamacare's restrictions, gives people more choices, and (most importantly) transfers the financial obligations to the states over time...or let it all collapse, and take the blame for doing nothing.
 
Playing politics with peoples' lives. Real cool.

That's exactly what the Democrats and a handful of Senate Republicans are doing by not supporting any of the reforms. They apparently prefer to keep it in its current unstable position instead.

The argument cuts both ways.
 

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